GI Stasis Questions...

[Jenk]

I don't know if Emma's grooming behavior is normal, or neurotic. And I don't know anymore if her stasis issues are related solely to grooming, although I'm told that they could be. So I have a few more questions....

1) Is it common for a bun to decrease its eating/drinking on a dime due to shedding? (That is, consume typical consumptions one day and just be "off" the next?)

2) How on earth do you prevent this from happening with each and every shed? (I brush Emma; she's fedonly hay and greens; she gets plenty of water, which she'll start ignoring every so many days and cause herself--and me--issues.)

3) Does the ignoring of food (and especially water) sound solely like a shedding/stasis issue? Or is there another health condition that could cause it?

Note: Emma, for a while, was drinking a lot of water (around 100-150 mL/day). Then she stopped touching for 24 hours and wound up at the vet's for sub-Qs.

 

[Maureen Las]

I don't think that decrease of water and food is normal for a bun that is shedding if the bun is being brushed and groomed by her owner.

I think that food intake and water intake varies somewhat from day to day. If you are giving Emma fluid orally she will , of course, drink less on her own.

sometimes my buns don't drink much somedays they do.

I do believe that rabbits can pick up on the stress of their owners just as rabbits in a group react strongly to fear reaction in their cagemates.

Emma could be having some reaction to the anxiety that you are feeling . ..

possibly leave her be a little bit more as it probably will help both of you

 

[Jenk]

I've been trying to be more low-key (enteringtheir x-pen areas only to check their poop output,groom themand feed/water them). I'll glance at Emma to see that she's still nibbling hay and drinking water, but I'm trying not to hover over her.

My hubby and I have returned to taking nightly walks (or bike rides), even though that gives the girls 30-40 minutes less time to be total hooligans in our living and dining room areas.

It's still hard for me, though, since Emma actsnormal one day and refuses to get up (due to discomfort, lethargy) the very next; I can't help but be on guard (to some extent) most of the time. I did remainrelaxed for several weeks', during which period both bunnies seemed "normal" in all respects. Somy guard was down when Emma wanted only to stay down, as well.

 

[Haley]

My bunnies dont eat/drink any less when they are shedding.

However, some bunnies do tend to get gassy more than others. I keep an eye on mine if they dont eat their breakfast pellets I usually hold off and see how they are at dinner. If they eat their veggies that night theyre usually going to be ok. Sometimes overstressing about things (and overmedicating or upsetting their routine) can make things worse Ive found.

I also know a lot of bunnies who drink significantly less when they are eating a lot of greens.

Have you ever had her teeth checked? Thats about the only other thing I can think of that causes a bun to go off food for a few days..

 

[Jenk]

Haley wrote:

My bunnies dont eat/drink any less when they are shedding.

...Some bunnies do tend to get gassy more than others. I keep an eye on mine if they dont eat their breakfast pellets I usually hold off and see how they are at dinner. If they eat their veggies that night theyre usually going to be ok. Sometimes overstressing about things (and overmedicating or upsetting their routine) can make things worse Ive found.

Here's all that I know: Emma's last vet visit was prompted by her extreme lethary and dull-/flat-looking eyes. Her behavior/symptoms started after she didn't touch her water for an eight-hour period.

I also know a lot of bunnies who drink significantly less when they are eating a lot of greens.

I don't measure the greens, but Emma likely eats 1-1.5 cups daily. But she was eating that same amount when she was downing 100+ mL of water daily. Going from that amount to maybe 60 mL (or a lot less) is a drastic change, IMO. I can't understand the how's/why's of it.

Have you ever had her teeth checked? Thats about the only other thing I can think of that causes a bun to go off food for a few days..

X-rays, no. But her teeth are checked thoroughly on every vet visit. And she has no other symptoms of teeth issues. Plus, she eats her hay fine (doesn't favor one side of her mouth, etc.). But she'll eat it fine one day and then simply stop the next (same for drinking water).

 

[dquesnel]

I just wanted to write and say that I am currently going through the exact same things as you with one of my buns. Thursday-Saturday were great, then Sunday and today are bad days. He also normally drinks lots of water, then won't touch it for a day.

With my guy at least I am wondering if there might be a bacterial infection somewhere- the same might be the case with your rabbit. I can't remember if you have had bloodwork/urinalysis done on him yet. I will be getting it done on my guy this week.

So you are not alone- the mystery problem is bugging us as well! I find leaving my guys alone for several hours does wonders. Today I went to the beach for the afternoon, and when I came back they were greeting me happily for food and I saw they all drank a good amount of water. I think offering more greens to Emma throughout day might help her pick up extra hydration/food on the off days. Even if she doesn't ttouch it right away, maybe she will touch it when you leave the house!

 

[Jenk]

dquesnel wrote:

I just wanted to write and say that I am currently going through the exact same things as you with one of my buns. Thursday-Saturday were great, then Sunday and today are bad days. He also normally drinks lots of water, then won't touch it for a day.

It's maddening to me, really. And it's both of my girls. Right now, it's Zoe (vs. Emma). But give it a week (or less); things could change again....

With my guy at least I am wondering if there might be a bacterial infection somewhere- the same might be the case with your rabbit. I can't remember if you have had bloodwork/urinalysis done on him yet. I will be getting it done on my guy this week.

I've had blood work done on both girls (more than once); both have had multiple fecal cultures;neither has had urinalysis. Testing of blood work has proved rather fruitless to date, since there's no indication of serious organ malfunction.

So you are not alone- the mystery problem is bugging us as well! I find leaving my guys alone for several hours does wonders.

I think offering more greens to Emma throughout day might help her pick up extra hydration/food on the off days. Even if she doesn't ttouch it right away, maybe she will touch it when you leave the house!

I've made a hair appointment today, and I'm not breaking it. (I plan to donate my cut hair to Locks of Love.) I already told my husband, as he headed off to work, that he may need to come home and run Zoe to the vet today. Personally, I'm burned out on making the 40 min. (one-way) drive every 1.5-3 weeks.

Emma weighs 3 lbs. and eats about 1-1.5 cups of greens daily. I make sure to add extra water to them, too. But it seems to take only8-12 hours of her ignoring her water crock to through her into classic stasis (discomfort) symptoms.

 

[JimD]

Jenk wrote:

Emma weighs 3 lbs. and eats about 1-1.5 cups of greens daily. I make sure to add extra water to them, too. But it seems to take only8-12 hours of her ignoring her water crock to through her into classic stasis (discomfort) symptoms.

Is it possible that some of the greens are making her gassy?
What's on the veggie menu?

 

[Jenk]

JimD wrote:

Jenk wrote:

Emma weighs 3 lbs. and eats about 1-1.5 cups of greens daily. I make sure to add extra water to them, too. But it seems to take only8-12 hours of her ignoring her water crock to through her into classic stasis (discomfort) symptoms.

Is it possible that some of the greens are making her gassy?
What's on the veggie menu?

My girls get a mix of three or more of the following greens per feedingarsley, cilantro, mint, dandelion, Romaine, green-leaf/red-leaf lettuces. (Zoe get a bare minimum of lettuce; she doesn't seem to handle it well.)

Oddly, Emma handled greens okay for months. Could gas be causing her to go off her greens/water? I suppose so. But she's typically been my "iron-clad tummy" bunny--up until a few months ago, when she was hospitalized for stasis.

It seems that even slight shedding is possibly causing her stasis issues. She'll have a few poops strung together by hair for one or two days, tops. Then her poops start turning small and decrease in quantity; by this time, she's decreasing her food/water intake, too. It's so fast and puzzling to me.

 

[JimD]

Jenk wrote:

Oddly, Emma handled greens okay for months. Could gas be causing her to go off her greens/water? I suppose so. But she's typically been my "iron-clad tummy" bunny--up until a few months ago, when she was hospitalized for stasis.

IMO...

If her system has been compromised in some way, you may need to go to a more basic diet.

Chippy always handled whatever I'd throw in her food dish.
But, after her serious bout with GI issues, things changed.
She's nowon a diet of unlimited variety of hay and limited pellets.
Breakfast is supplemented with a few rolled oats....and supper is served with a supplement of a few black sunflower seeds.
Both meals get a few small pieces of dried papaya. It really seems to help her pass all of her shedding hair....kind of like "prunes for bunnies". The high content of vitamin C is good for her GI issues as well.
Key aims are for high fiber and low protien.

I'm also a nut about giving all of my buns bottled water.
Brindle stopped drinking for 2 days one time, because the chemicals they added to our tap water made it smell funny.

My first buns are lucky they survived me being so ignorant about their care. I still have them though....Benji & Brindle.
They're both healthy and happy.
However, Benji has chronic runny eyes due to sensitivity to dust....and Brindle gets poopy butt if she gets too many pellets or oats.
S'more is a real challenge as far as keeping her diet balanced enough to keep her from getting poopy butt, too. I seem to be cleaning her up at least every week or two.
And MooShu is kind of knock-kneed (opposite of splayed) and has a major problem getting in and out of her litter pan.

My other buns are my "bunny care anchors"...Tootsie, Binky, and Rosie. Theyare all very easy to care for, but they all have their subtle issue as well....
Tootsie watches over the others, but needs a LOT of personal attention to let her know that she's secure in her surroundings.
Binkie is very aggressive if she doesn't trust you....she still doesn't trust me all of the time.
Rosie-roo Jones was abandoned at a gas station in the middle of winter.... need I say more? She's so very insecure and hesitant to warm up to anybody...but I think I've gained abitof her trustover the past 3 years.

Bunnies are a challenge, to say the very least.
I swear mine take turns at "not feeling good today, daddy" syndrome.

You remind me of me when I first had bunnies.... except you're much more aware of what their needs are....and your bunnies probably know that.
Your concern impresses me...but try not to let it consume you. The buns will most definately pick up on your feelings....Both positive and negative feelings affect them.

In my honest opinion....
I'm certain you have the skills....now you just need a good plan.
Go back to the basics...establish a comfortable starting point...proceed step by step.
I've gone back to only water and hay a few times with a couple of my buns. And then slowly worked them into a diet that suited their individual needs.

And take a break now and then for a movie and some popcorn!!


We'll certainly be keeping you and yours in our toughts and prayers.

~Jim

 

[ZoohCorner]

Jenk,

When your bunny had stasis a few months ago, was it her first bout? What were her symptoms? How long did it last? What meds was she on for it and for how long? How long after the first bout till the next one? When she is eating okay, how are her poops?

Lots of questions, I know! Just curious and hoping to help a bit.

 

[Jenk]

Hi, Jim.

As I type this reply, Zoe is hospitalized;a sizeable pocket of gas was found in her lower intestine, possibly indicating ablockage. (I'm worried about that half of a Zoom-Groom tooth she consumed on 7/17/08. )

I know that everyone tells me to not worry; butZoe's high billfollows eight days after Emma's$200 billand six days after our cat's $1,300 test. Hence, my Catch-22: I need to return to work to keep up with the bills, but I'm scared to leave the bunners for 9-11 hours daily with all the craziness that occurs so often.

Now, to actually reply to your awesomely-informative post....

JimD wrote:

IMO...If her system has been compromised in some way, you may need to go to a more basic diet.

Chippy always handled whatever I'd throw in her food dish. But, after her serious bout with GI issues, things changed.

Ikept up with feeding Emma leafy greens after her stasis bouts because her plant-enzyme/probiotic compound needs something to stick to. (If Idecreaseher amount of greens, she'll likely refuse them entirely.) Plus, feeding .50 cc's of Bene-Bac daily (the other option of getting her a probiotic) is more pricey.

I don't disagree with you, though.I oncefed Zoe timothy hay only for a six-week period after her poops had gone haywire (again). With her, I think I'll need to remove greens or decrease them drastically (again). She, too, is on the plant-enzyme/probiotic, so this gets tricky. Plus, she loves her greens so much (and I hate denying her them).

Both meals get a few small pieces of dried papaya. It really seems to help her pass all of her shedding hair....kind of like "prunes for bunnies". The high content of vitamin C is good for her GI issues as well. Key aims are for high fiber and low protien.

I'm uncertain if Zoe's system could handle the sugar of even fruit; I'm scared to even try....But Emma would likely do okay with it. Do you feed papaya for every meal, or only during a bunny shed?

I'm also a nut about giving all of my buns bottled water.

As it turns out, bottled water has been proven to be less stellar than previously thought. Ironically, though, I do give my girls bottled water. (We use distilled water, although I should probably use spring water, too, to give them some extra minerals.)

My other buns are my "bunny care anchors"...Tootsie, Binky, and Rosie.

I've previously quipped to my hubby that we should get a third bun to have as our "anchor" bun. With the vet bills and stress, though, I've stopped making that joke.

You remind me of me when I first had bunnies.... except you're much more aware of what their needs are....and your bunnies probably know that.

I am? Heh...It doesn't feel that way.

When I first got the girls, I read a ton on rabbits and learned a ton within a short period of time. And, yet, I've been so stumped by their health issues, which I take rather personally (as I feel that I'm failing them despite my garnered knowledge).

Your concern impresses me...but try not to let it consume you. The buns will most definately pick up on your feelings....Both positive and negative feelings affect them.

I've had birds for 20 years (hard to believe it's been that long). They, too, are very sensitive to humans' moods;I'm used to that characteristic. Believe it or not, I try to remain more light-hearted around my bunnies--and cry/fret in private.

I'm certain you have the skills....now you just need a good plan. Go back to the basics...establish a comfortable starting point...proceed step by step. I've gone back to only water and hay a few times with a couple of my buns. And then slowly worked them into a diet that suited their individual needs.

Another reason for giving Emma the probiotic is that Staph. was found in her system. Her vet wants to help it rebalance itself without more antibiotics, but that at least requiresprobiotics. Not sure what to do about that at this point....I didn't want to "pad" our bill anymore by running thru Bene-Bac likeit's water....

And take a break now and then for a movie and some popcorn!!

We did...saw the The Dark Knight this past Saturday;we needed a break after Emma's and Simon's (our cat's) visits/bills. So, of course, that's why we're now hit with Zoe's issue....I'm calling the vet right now for a status update on her condition....

We'll certainly be keeping you and yours in our toughts and prayers.

Thank you. :hug: I feel like a need a miracle to develop some balance in terms of my girls' health. The vet visits/bills need to slow down drastically....

 

[Jenk]

ZoohCorner wrote:

When your bunny had stasis a few months ago, was it her first bout? What were her symptoms? How long did it last? What meds was she on for it and for how long? How long after the first bout till the next one? When she is eating okay, how are her poops?

To answer your questions, ZoohCorner:

1) Yes, Emma's bout a few months ago was her first (to my knowledge).

2) I'm ashamed to admit that I didn't notice right away that she was refusing to potty inside of the litter box within her cage. (I assumed--big mistake--that my husband was taking note of Emma's output, since I was watching Zoe's.)

3) It's hard to say how long that it lasted because I didn't even catch it right away. But she was hospitalized for 2.5 days and passed tiny poops during her first overnight at the vet's. So I guess that translates to several days' time. :?

4) Lemme check her records....She was hospitalized on 5/22/08 and was treated again for stasis on 7/28/08.(No parasites werefound; nothing greatly amiss per her blood work results.)