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FairyTailFuzzies

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I have the opportunity to pick up a nice brokenchestnut agouti buck (AFL) from a breeder who is getting outof the breed.

My question.......My does are blue, black and broken orange.I've read not to cross agouti and selfs - to breed only likegroups. Then I found an article in my AFL handbook that saysyou can breed selfs and agoutis (they are the only exception to therule).

Just want some opinions from experienced breeders if you can getshowable colors from the possible crossing of this buck with mydoes. I've been mapping the genes out and I think he willcross nice with the black and orange - not sure about theblue? Thanks for any input!
 
I'm not that great at genetics - I would thinkwith the blue you might get broken squirrel or something. Iknow that black is sometimes used with chin to get a rich chin color(or so I was told). I can't picture breeding an orange to achin though....I would think you'd wind up with smutty colors.

Pam is great at genetics and we have other breeders on here who aregreat too.....I'm sure they'll give you better tips and I'll bewatching the thread so I can learn too!

Peg
 
The big "no-nos' are crossing agouti with shadeds or himis/pointeds.

Depending on what the selfs are carrying, there is really no reason notto cross with the selfs (unless both the agouti and self carry shaded).

You'll most likely get more chestnuts, but introducing blue can giveyou opal down the line. You may get selfs if the agouti alsocarries the self gene.

The chestnut is fine crossed with orange. You'll most likelyget chestnut unless the chestnut carries thenon-extensiongene. Then you you could get fawn/orange.



Pam
 
Thanks Pam

I know he carries a recessive self gene- his mother was a broken blackand his father a solid chestnut. So that does open some othercombinations I think with the orange like you said. I justwant to make sure its a wise decision for my herd!Thanks!




OOps - just realized extension is the E_ gene not the Aa gene.... In looking at the pedigrees - there are only a fewshaded animals on the blue doe- 3 generations back...I may beok. Thanks again!
 
Yes, with the chestnut's dam being a brokenblack, the chestnut is also carrying the self gene "a". So,he can produce selfs when bred to selfs or when bred to other agouti ortan pattern varieties that also carry the self "a" gene.

And correct --non-extension is in the "E" series.It is recessive "e" which is needed to produce varieties such as orangeand tort.



Pam
 
cirrustwi wrote:
I'm not a breeder, so I'm not exactly sure if this iscompletely accurate, but this site is pretty interesting. Itwas given to me by a breeder.

http://tsukiyo.org/Varieties/contents.html

Jen
Click to expand...


Sarah's site info is accurate and includes an extensive array ofarticles. I don't think she currently has any rabbits, buthopes to get back into them in the future.

Pam
 
I would have to agree with Pam on this one. Iknow that sometimes with Satins you may bring in other colors like ared to a copper to bring out the intermediate ring color. I'm not veryfamiliar with the AFL but I'm sure it's something similar.

Kat
 
Correct when you breed orange to himis yousometimes get himi agoutis. they are not showable but i do thisbreeding to improve the color and type of my oranges.bluebird
 
Genetics is quite fun andenjoyableonce it "clicks". It looks morecomplicated than it really is. If you know your ABC's& D's, you can learn genetics ;). Just remember, arabbithas 2 genes on any given allele - no more, no less.

A's = Coat Pattern:
"A" = Agouti Pattern (Chestnut Agouti, Opal, Lynx)
"a[suP]t[/suP]" = Tan Pattern (Otter's, Marten's)
"a" = Self Pattern (Black, Chocolate, Lilac, Blue)

(Gene's are shown in order of dominance... Top being the most dominantover what's listed below it. So, therefore Self is recessiveto Tan, and Tan recessive to Agouti. You can have an Agoutirecessive or "hiding'either Self or Tan, but Self's or Tan'scannot "hide" Agouti. A rabbitmust have2copies ofa recessivegene in order for it to beexpressed or show. The same is true for all allele's, notjust Coat Pattern.)

B's = Base Color:
"B" = Black base color (Black, Blue, Castor (Chestnut Agouti), Opal)
"b" = Chocolate base color (Chocolate, Lilac, Lynx)

C's = Color Pattern
"C" = Full Color Pattern (Black, Chocolate, Castor, Opal, Lilac, etc.)
"C[suP]chd[/suP]" = Dark Chinchilla Pattern (Chinchilla, Silver Martens)
"C[suP]chl[/suP]" = Light Chinchilla Pattern (Seal, Seal Silver Marten, Sable, Sable Marten
"c[suP]h[/suP]" = Himalayan Pattern (Himalayan markings)
"c" = Albino (all white)

D's = Color Intensity
"D" = Intense/Full Color (Black, Chocolate, Castor)
"d" = Dilute/Faded Color (Blue, Lilac, Opal, Lynx)

E's = Pigment Extension
"E[suP]S[/suP]" = Steel Extension (Steel tipped coloring)
"E" = Normal Extension (normal, no effects)
"e[suP]j[/suP]" = Japanese Extension (Tri colors - Harlequins)
"e" = Non Extension (Shaded varieties - Torts, Sable Points)

Although there's more, these are the basics and what's mostly referredto when deciding what color to breed to what. Each breederhas their own preference of what gene's they want to work with(what colors and varieties they want their rabbits recessive for),so the following is just my own personal opinion when determiningwhat to breed to what.

Agouti's are safe to cross to their respective Self varieties -Castor's to Blacks, Opal's to Blue's, Lilac's to Lynx. Keepin mind, when you breed Agouti to Self, the kits (regardless of theirvarieties and color markings) will always be recessive forSelf(they carry/will "hide" 1 copyof the Self gene).

It is also safe to breed any Intense variety with it's respectiveDilute variety - Black to Blue, Chocolate to Lilac, Castor toOpal. Keep in mind, when you breedIntense toDilute, the kits (regardless of their varieties and color) willalways be recessive for Dilute (they carry/will "hide" 1copyof theDilute gene).

It is also safe to breed anyBlack basedvariety withit's respectiveChocolate variety - Black toChocolate,Blue to Lilac, Opal to Lynx. Again, keepin mind, when you breedBlack based varietiestoChocolate based varieties, the kits (regardless of their varieties andcolor) will always be recessive forChocolate basedvarieties (they carry/will "hide" 1 copyoftheChocolate colorgene).

I would not recommend breeding differentColor Patternstogether with the exception of Full Color to Albino (as long as youknow what the albino is recessive for). In my opinion,crossing REW's to full color can help in improving density, furtextureand type in a related genetic variety.Crossing any other Color Patterns together can set you back in colorimprovement/enhancement, so I would advise against this.

The same would go for Pigment Extension. As with ColorPatterns, try to keep only to like genes... although some breeders docross non extension varieties to their respective full extension(normal) varieties to try to improve/darken thepoints -shaded area's of color (Tort to Black for example), but I, personally,would caution this as it *could* also dull out or darken the non shadedarea's as well.

I had createdtwo charts in a Microsoft Works Spreadsheetformat to help me decipher what varieties are within whichgroups,here's a link to them:

Black Based Colors:http://www.sunniebunnierabbitry.com/Panda/BlackBaseGenetics.xlr
Chocolate Based Colors:http://www.sunniebunnierabbitry.com/Panda/ChocolateBaseGentics.xlr

I hope you find them helpful. :)

~Sunshine
 
SunnieBunnie

Thanks for your detailed info! Unfortunately I couldn't openyour spreadsheets:(My computer dosen't recognizeMicrosoftworks I guess?

I did decide to buy this buck. I pick him up on the 27th - the ladies can't wait to meet the new man!

Thanks for all your help - everyone!

FTF
 
Thank You! :)

Even though the charts say Mini Rex and list their variety names - itis basically the same for all breeds ;). The only realchanges with using it for other breeds are the Variety names...

For instance:
Castor is the same as Chestnut Agouti
Amber is the same as Chocolate Agouti
Lynx is the same as Lilac Agouti
...and so on & so forth

~Sunshine

Oh, and for brokens - use the respective coloring and ad"E[suB]n[/suB]e[suB]n[/suB]" to the end to represent the Brokengene. For example for aBroken Black,usethe genetics for a Black and add the brokengenes"E[suB]n[/suB]e[suB]n[/suB]" to the end of it to looklike this:aaB_C_D_E_E[suB]n[/suB]e[suB]n[/suB]

Sothe Broken Chestnut Agouti buck would have the known genotype of: A_B_C_D_E_E[suB]n[/suB]e[suB]n[/suB]
 
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