Follow-up on Jack's Bladder Sludge
- Thread starter billinjax
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I believe that a bunny in pain can look sleepy; usually thegriniding in pain is harder and louder than the purring sound
I think that you could have the urine tested and blood panel done initally and if there is anything abnormal you may want to get an x-ray of the bladder /kidneys.
Sounds like you have a handle on this situation.
What other symptoms are causing you to think the sludge is back. ?
I think that you could have the urine tested and blood panel done initally and if there is anything abnormal you may want to get an x-ray of the bladder /kidneys.
Sounds like you have a handle on this situation.
What other symptoms are causing you to think the sludge is back. ?
He could be grinding in pleasure from being petted? :?
Are you petting him more. ?
Many times when I pet their heads I feel their teeth grinding.
if he had sludge he would probably be spending a lot of time in the litterbox shifting positions (or if he doesn't use a box well) would appear to be doing that on blankets or whatevr surface he is on.
I think it is betterto be over observant than under with a rabbit because their clues are so subtle.
They don't really show very much of anything until the pain is bad. .
Are you petting him more. ?
Many times when I pet their heads I feel their teeth grinding.
if he had sludge he would probably be spending a lot of time in the litterbox shifting positions (or if he doesn't use a box well) would appear to be doing that on blankets or whatevr surface he is on.
I think it is betterto be over observant than under with a rabbit because their clues are so subtle.
They don't really show very much of anything until the pain is bad. .
That grinding doesn't sound normal ..so good luck
let us know
let us know
Amy27
Task Force
When my rabbit is in pain from sludge/stones she does angieluv stated and will shift positions in her litter box while trying to go. She will also look like she has gone and 2 seconds later go back to her litter box to try and go again. She will also go on the floor where she usually doesn't go. Where she will do the shifting, she will lift her butt higher then normal, and keep trying to go on the carpet. I also have found that she will lay in weird places that she wouldn't normally lay. She won't want to move much. Won't run around and play. If the pain is really bad, she won't be interested in eating. Those are the things I have noticed.
My rabbit would grind her teeth in pain laying in a bunny loaf position. But she wouldn't get up run around and play.
For rechecks, my vet usually does an x-ray. Though I had one vet do an ultrasound. We have also done the lab work including the urinalysis. If they get a good urine sample they can check the calcium content of the urine. I think having all the tests you listed done is good. That way you can see if anything else is off.
Good luck at your appointment.
My rabbit would grind her teeth in pain laying in a bunny loaf position. But she wouldn't get up run around and play.
For rechecks, my vet usually does an x-ray. Though I had one vet do an ultrasound. We have also done the lab work including the urinalysis. If they get a good urine sample they can check the calcium content of the urine. I think having all the tests you listed done is good. That way you can see if anything else is off.
Good luck at your appointment.
tonyshuman
Well-Known Member
There are also medications that can help with the balance of electrolytes in the kidneys. If I remember right, Chase was on one of those drugs.
Is he on anything for pain or does he look in pain; you may want to ask your vet for a pain med.
The subq fluids are the correct way to go. You're right that they most likely moved the sludge down and now he isnow moving it out.
you may want to ask the vet about getting some critical care to feed him by syringe ..maybe pick up some pure canned pumpkin which is easy to syringe.
You could offer him some low calcium greens like romaine or cilantro (dandelions work as a diuretic)... if he is used to those veggies; it actually is betterif he chooses to eat on his own
If he is drinking on hisown you may want to try to flavor his water with cranberry juice. try to get pure juice..unsweetened is better but mine won't touch it so sweetened is preferable to nothing. Give him a bowl of regular water and also a bowl of water flavored with cranberry juice.
let us know what the vet tells you ..
good luck
The subq fluids are the correct way to go. You're right that they most likely moved the sludge down and now he isnow moving it out.
you may want to ask the vet about getting some critical care to feed him by syringe ..maybe pick up some pure canned pumpkin which is easy to syringe.
You could offer him some low calcium greens like romaine or cilantro (dandelions work as a diuretic)... if he is used to those veggies; it actually is betterif he chooses to eat on his own
If he is drinking on hisown you may want to try to flavor his water with cranberry juice. try to get pure juice..unsweetened is better but mine won't touch it so sweetened is preferable to nothing. Give him a bowl of regular water and also a bowl of water flavored with cranberry juice.
let us know what the vet tells you ..
good luck
tonyshuman
Well-Known Member
I don't think Metacam is appropriate for this situation. A much better choice would be Tramadol, or even buprenorphine. The pain from kidney diseases is very great, so a narcotic is usually needed. Also, you're familiar with Metacam being bad on the kidneys--I think this is a situation in which it really could do more harm than good.
The amount of water sounds good. Best of luck to you guys. There is also a medicine that others have used to help with electrolyte balance in the kidneys, but I can't for the life of me remember what it is. I'll look it up.
The amount of water sounds good. Best of luck to you guys. There is also a medicine that others have used to help with electrolyte balance in the kidneys, but I can't for the life of me remember what it is. I'll look it up.
tonyshuman
Well-Known Member
Lasix (furosemide) is a diuretic that can help eliminate water and salt from the body. It's possible that he's getting all that water into his system but his kidneys are having trouble clearing it, which is why the sludge is still quite thick. I'd ask your vet about it. Don't go ahead and give dandelion as a diuretic though--I'd want to make sure the vet was on board with that treatment.
Amy27
Task Force
tonyshuman wrote:
This is what Chase is on. She has been on it since feb or march this year and has had no bad side effects. My vet has a certificate in exotics and taught exotics at Ohio State University. So she has lots of experience and Chase was the first rabbit she ever tried Lasix on for bladder sludge. I say that so when you call your vet, if they seemed confused about why you would mention Lasix, it isn't used a lot for bladder sludge. It is the only thing that worked for Chase though. It worked while we tried to figure out the underlying reason for sludge. I am actually starting to wean her off from it now.
Being on Lasix requires the rabbit to get lots of fluids so if you do try Lasix, you will probably have to continue to do sub q's. I did sub q's for awhile and then we slowly tappered her off the sub q's and I offer a ton of veggies everyday that have been soaked in water and that has provided her with enough liquid to keep her hydrated while on the Lasix. Basically the Lasix made her urinate more so she was pushing more sludge out of her bladder. We tried the sub q's everyday without the Lasix and she was still getting the sludge.
With the Lasix, I have to take Chase in once a month for blood work to make sure the Lasix isn't causing her electrolytes to be low. Potassium was a big concern of the vets. So every night Chase got a small piece of banana to keep her potassium up.
I hope things start to look up for you and Jack. I understand how frustrating this is. If you have any questions about the Lasix let me know. If your vet wants to know more about the use of Lasix in bladder sludge rabbits, I am sure my vet would be happy to talk to him. This is her contact info Dr. Oglesbee 614-870-0480 http://www.cvrec.org/avianexotics.htmShe is in the office M-F from 8-5.
This is what Chase is on. She has been on it since feb or march this year and has had no bad side effects. My vet has a certificate in exotics and taught exotics at Ohio State University. So she has lots of experience and Chase was the first rabbit she ever tried Lasix on for bladder sludge. I say that so when you call your vet, if they seemed confused about why you would mention Lasix, it isn't used a lot for bladder sludge. It is the only thing that worked for Chase though. It worked while we tried to figure out the underlying reason for sludge. I am actually starting to wean her off from it now.
Being on Lasix requires the rabbit to get lots of fluids so if you do try Lasix, you will probably have to continue to do sub q's. I did sub q's for awhile and then we slowly tappered her off the sub q's and I offer a ton of veggies everyday that have been soaked in water and that has provided her with enough liquid to keep her hydrated while on the Lasix. Basically the Lasix made her urinate more so she was pushing more sludge out of her bladder. We tried the sub q's everyday without the Lasix and she was still getting the sludge.
With the Lasix, I have to take Chase in once a month for blood work to make sure the Lasix isn't causing her electrolytes to be low. Potassium was a big concern of the vets. So every night Chase got a small piece of banana to keep her potassium up.
I hope things start to look up for you and Jack. I understand how frustrating this is. If you have any questions about the Lasix let me know. If your vet wants to know more about the use of Lasix in bladder sludge rabbits, I am sure my vet would be happy to talk to him. This is her contact info Dr. Oglesbee 614-870-0480 http://www.cvrec.org/avianexotics.htmShe is in the office M-F from 8-5.
tonyshuman
Well-Known Member
Buprenex can make them pretty knocked out. I'm glad you got it for him, though. Randy calls is a "magic carpet ride".
Amy27
Task Force
Hey Bill, I was just wondering how you and Jack are doing. I have been thinking about you guys.
Amy27
Task Force
I am glad things seem to be going better. I don't blame you for wanting to reschedule your appointment from the 24th to monday. I think I would do the same thing.
Chase was first started on sub q's 100cc I want to say everyday or everyother day. I gave the 100cc all at one time. I used an IV bag and needle to give them. After a month or 2 the sludge was still there with just the sub q fluids. The vet then started the Lasix. The sludge went down when the Lasix was started. We then started slowly cutting down on the sub q's. Every month the vet would check to see how hydrated she was and we would add an extra day between the sub q's. Eventually we stopped the sub q's and she stated on the Lasix. I think it is good to do sub q's when starting the Lasix to make sure Jack stays hydrated. Chase still doesn't drink water. In the last 3 months or so I have seen her drink once. She stays hydrated from her veggies. I give her a big dinner plate of veggies that have soaked in water twice a day. But we weren't sure at first if that was going to be enough so we did the sub q's.
I never noticed sludge in Chase's litter box. We monitored her sludge from the x-rays they take every month. The vet has digital x-rays and can pull up 3 months worth of x-rays and we can see if the sludge has increased or decreased.
Another thing my vet had my try was massaging Chase's bladder. I wouldn't expel the urine but with the massages we were hoping to get the sludge up off the bottom of the bladder so when she urinated, more came out.
Chase was first started on sub q's 100cc I want to say everyday or everyother day. I gave the 100cc all at one time. I used an IV bag and needle to give them. After a month or 2 the sludge was still there with just the sub q fluids. The vet then started the Lasix. The sludge went down when the Lasix was started. We then started slowly cutting down on the sub q's. Every month the vet would check to see how hydrated she was and we would add an extra day between the sub q's. Eventually we stopped the sub q's and she stated on the Lasix. I think it is good to do sub q's when starting the Lasix to make sure Jack stays hydrated. Chase still doesn't drink water. In the last 3 months or so I have seen her drink once. She stays hydrated from her veggies. I give her a big dinner plate of veggies that have soaked in water twice a day. But we weren't sure at first if that was going to be enough so we did the sub q's.
I never noticed sludge in Chase's litter box. We monitored her sludge from the x-rays they take every month. The vet has digital x-rays and can pull up 3 months worth of x-rays and we can see if the sludge has increased or decreased.
Another thing my vet had my try was massaging Chase's bladder. I wouldn't expel the urine but with the massages we were hoping to get the sludge up off the bottom of the bladder so when she urinated, more came out.
