robandcathie
Member
Thanks Pam for the awesome article. The belief system behind PETA would almost be humorous if it werent so sad.
Faking Scientific Research
- Thread starter pamnock
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Emmy-webby
Well-Known Member
Very very interesting. Great thing that he got caught.
pamnock
Well-Known Member
PETA tactics are very disturbing and they dobankroll terrorist activities. Theiragenda is about control -- not compassion.
As I've said before -- I strongly support animal "welfare" -- not animal "rights". There is a significant difference.
Pam
As I've said before -- I strongly support animal "welfare" -- not animal "rights". There is a significant difference.
Pam
Kadish Tolesa
Well-Known Member
Hi, everyone......thanks for your replies !
Pam , you've put time andeffort into providing accurate responses --sometimes in the past Iwould get on the bandwagon about such-and-such an issue withoutresearching it first , then I'd have to eat humble pie in greatquantities ! Thanks for your wealth of info.
There's nothing like thefounder's own words for an example. I have come away-- after readingthese quotations and articles--feeling chilled.
There is a ton of info.Idon't know about rabbits ; and I thought Iknew everything because I had pet bunnies while growing up! Ha !!!
Kadish Tolesa :rose:
Pam , you've put time andeffort into providing accurate responses --sometimes in the past Iwould get on the bandwagon about such-and-such an issue withoutresearching it first , then I'd have to eat humble pie in greatquantities ! Thanks for your wealth of info.
There's nothing like thefounder's own words for an example. I have come away-- after readingthese quotations and articles--feeling chilled.
There is a ton of info.Idon't know about rabbits ; and I thought Iknew everything because I had pet bunnies while growing up! Ha !!!
Kadish Tolesa :rose:
tayasgram
Member
Pam, You really should read everything beforeyou speak. Ingrid's view on companion animals, as she prefers to callthem is that aminal that would otherwise be free, should remain so andnot be put into captivity for our own satisfaction. Animals that havebecome totally domesticated such as cats and dogs CANNOT live wild andshould not be expected to do so.
She agreed with an interviewer that pet ownership is the moralequivalent of slavery, unless the animal needed shelter to beginwith.
This is directly from the link you posted. On that happy note, I willbow out of this "slam session" and take my comments elsewhere. You guysreally know how to make a new member feel welcome!
Peggy
She agreed with an interviewer that pet ownership is the moralequivalent of slavery, unless the animal needed shelter to beginwith.
This is directly from the link you posted. On that happy note, I willbow out of this "slam session" and take my comments elsewhere. You guysreally know how to make a new member feel welcome!
Peggy
pamnock
Well-Known Member
Because PETA funds terrorist activities andbecause they are a major concern of the FBI, PETA sympathizers andtheir manipulative agendaare not welcome here.
"Another cause of concern is the degree of financial support given byPETA to eco-terroristorganizations such as the AnimalLiberation Front(ALF) and Earth Liberation Front(ELF), both associated with firebombings and other destruction ofproperty, and described by the United States Department of HomelandSecurity as terrorist threats."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_for_the_Ethical_Treatment_of_Animals
http://www.cq.com/public/20050325_homeland.html
Pam
"Another cause of concern is the degree of financial support given byPETA to eco-terroristorganizations such as the AnimalLiberation Front(ALF) and Earth Liberation Front(ELF), both associated with firebombings and other destruction ofproperty, and described by the United States Department of HomelandSecurity as terrorist threats."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_for_the_Ethical_Treatment_of_Animals
http://www.cq.com/public/20050325_homeland.html
Pam
tayasgram wrote:
Back atcha.
Sorry, but these things weren't said by Pam...they were stateddirectly by the organization. Don't kill themessenger. Put the responsibility where it belongs..by thosewho said it.
-Carolyn
Back atcha.
Sorry, but these things weren't said by Pam...they were stateddirectly by the organization. Don't kill themessenger. Put the responsibility where it belongs..by thosewho said it.
-Carolyn
pamnock
Well-Known Member
"...Eventually companion animals would be phased out, and we would return
to a more symbiotic relationship, enjoyment at a distance."
Ingrid Newkirk - Founder, PETA
Harpers, August, 1988
This indicates to me that the companion animals already owned would beallowed to die of old age in captivity, but that no more companionanimals could be bred or owned. Eventually, as Ingrid stated,phasing out all companion animals.
Peggy's statement simply supported my informationand confirmed that Ingrid is against pet ownership:
"She agreed with an interviewer that pet ownership is the moral equivalent of slavery"
Pam
to a more symbiotic relationship, enjoyment at a distance."
Ingrid Newkirk - Founder, PETA
Harpers, August, 1988
This indicates to me that the companion animals already owned would beallowed to die of old age in captivity, but that no more companionanimals could be bred or owned. Eventually, as Ingrid stated,phasing out all companion animals.
Peggy's statement simply supported my informationand confirmed that Ingrid is against pet ownership:
"She agreed with an interviewer that pet ownership is the moral equivalent of slavery"
Pam
seniorcats
Well-Known Member
I did notice the quotes were rather old - from14 to 19 years ago and no context. Personally, my own viewson many topics, from animals to politics have evolved and changed fromwhat I believed 14 to 19 years ago. While I am always willingto be accountable for what I say, whether it is, today, 5 years ago, 10years, 40 years ago - I may find some of it embarrasing, immature andnot reflective of my current views. The same may happen againin 10 - 20 years, if I live that long. I suspect it's humannature.
What I am trying to say is that people need to read more than onearticle, read and study more than one point of view, before they makeup their minds and let no further thought, knowledge enter. Iread the articles Pam posted and I went to the PETA web site toread. I expect I will be doing more research as my free timeallows.
It is important that people, even the young folks here, learn criticalthinking. While I may admire and respect people I meet onthis board and in other forums for their knowledge, I could not simplyadopt their point of view with no other study. I believeeveryone is entitled to their opinion. However, I alsobelieve opinions should be based on as much information from as manysources as possible and not on a whimsy, someone else's opinion, whatyour parents or friends believe or 10 minutes worth of news.It doesn't matter whether it's rabbits, animal welfare//rights,politics, chidcare, ad infinitem.
I believe Peggy had information and points of view to share.I personally would like to see new avenues of study.SometimesI feel like I walk a fine line on various forumsbetween presenting my views and opinions and attempting to respect theviews and opinions of others. I am fascinated by otherpeople's views and knowledge.
I would hope we can all have open minds and continue our learning process.
What I am trying to say is that people need to read more than onearticle, read and study more than one point of view, before they makeup their minds and let no further thought, knowledge enter. Iread the articles Pam posted and I went to the PETA web site toread. I expect I will be doing more research as my free timeallows.
It is important that people, even the young folks here, learn criticalthinking. While I may admire and respect people I meet onthis board and in other forums for their knowledge, I could not simplyadopt their point of view with no other study. I believeeveryone is entitled to their opinion. However, I alsobelieve opinions should be based on as much information from as manysources as possible and not on a whimsy, someone else's opinion, whatyour parents or friends believe or 10 minutes worth of news.It doesn't matter whether it's rabbits, animal welfare//rights,politics, chidcare, ad infinitem.
I believe Peggy had information and points of view to share.I personally would like to see new avenues of study.SometimesI feel like I walk a fine line on various forumsbetween presenting my views and opinions and attempting to respect theviews and opinions of others. I am fascinated by otherpeople's views and knowledge.
I would hope we can all have open minds and continue our learning process.
pamnock
Well-Known Member
Excellent post seniorcats I agree that the information I posted was to support my point.
However, news articles came out within the past couple weeks about PETAsupporting terrorist activities, and the FBI's concern that theseorganizations are the most serious domestic terrorist threats.
This is from PETA's current website: "PETA operates under the simpleprinciple that animals are not ours to eat, wear, experiment on, or usefor entertainment."
This statement is taken to the extreme to prevent us to have any interaction with animals.
A more recent statement from Ingrid . . .
"If anybody wonders about what's this with all these reforms, you canhear us clearly. Our goal is total animalliberation."
(Animal Rights 2002 national convention, US)
Pam
I agree that the information I posted was to support my point.However, news articles came out within the past couple weeks about PETAsupporting terrorist activities, and the FBI's concern that theseorganizations are the most serious domestic terrorist threats.
This is from PETA's current website: "PETA operates under the simpleprinciple that animals are not ours to eat, wear, experiment on, or usefor entertainment."
This statement is taken to the extreme to prevent us to have any interaction with animals.
A more recent statement from Ingrid . . .
"If anybody wonders about what's this with all these reforms, you canhear us clearly. Our goal is total animalliberation."
(Animal Rights 2002 national convention, US)
Pam
Bunnys_rule63
Well-Known Member
I just read that thing about pets living in thewild. I recently read a book called 'the pig that sang to the moon'. Inthis book the author also pushed this message, he said that there is nosuch thing as a free range chicken, i beg to differ as our hens havedestroyed all my mums flower beds and taken over the whole garden andare trying to take over the house, thats how much freedom they have.Animals enjoy our company, many pet owners know what i mean. Therelationship between a animal and it's owner is very special. I alsorecently read 'shy boy' by Monty Roberts, the mustang actually chose tobe with him then to be in the wild with his herd. Another example ofthe relationship between animal and owner. I hope i don't offend anyoneat PETA by posting this. In fact i agree with them on many points (e.gcircus animals).
seniorcats
Well-Known Member
Thanks Pam, I'm glad we can have a civilized discussion.
Of courseI support animal welfare, just as you do.There are also some aspects of animal rights I support. Iwon't enumerate them here because most are related to cats and notrabbits. Also, a lot of my beliefs are private just like myreligious and political beliefs.If we ever meet inperson, I'm sure we will havesome interesting topics todiscuss.
I have mixed feelings about animal rights and liberation and, for thecurious, I was a member of PETA from their founding 25 years ago andfor about 7-8 years after. My membership lapsed because myfocus changed to supporting local efforts, the no-cage, no-kill shelterwhere I volunteer andthe BuckeyeHRS.WillI read their web site - sure! Will I believeevery word without documentation - no!
I also have some mixed feeling about breeding butmost ofthose feelings are personal and I see no point in sharingnow. Also, I think my knowledge of professional breeding isstill very limited. How can I condemn or criticize when I amlacking in information? I do not support or condonethe irresponsible, amateur, indiscriminate breeding of mixed breedrabbits especially when there is little purpose to thebreeding. Having rescue bunnies has made me all too familiarwith that.
What bothers me the most about so many 'for and against' arguments isthe anger that is generated. Neither side listens, learns oris persuaded by shouting, rudeness, bullying, name callingandbad behavior.
I also feel it is incumbent upon the adults on the forum to set a goodtone and a good example for the younger, minor members.Parents should feelconfident there kids won't be exposed tosome foaming, raging adult's bared backside.
Of courseI support animal welfare, just as you do.There are also some aspects of animal rights I support. Iwon't enumerate them here because most are related to cats and notrabbits. Also, a lot of my beliefs are private just like myreligious and political beliefs.If we ever meet inperson, I'm sure we will havesome interesting topics todiscuss.
I have mixed feelings about animal rights and liberation and, for thecurious, I was a member of PETA from their founding 25 years ago andfor about 7-8 years after. My membership lapsed because myfocus changed to supporting local efforts, the no-cage, no-kill shelterwhere I volunteer andthe BuckeyeHRS.WillI read their web site - sure! Will I believeevery word without documentation - no!
I also have some mixed feeling about breeding butmost ofthose feelings are personal and I see no point in sharingnow. Also, I think my knowledge of professional breeding isstill very limited. How can I condemn or criticize when I amlacking in information? I do not support or condonethe irresponsible, amateur, indiscriminate breeding of mixed breedrabbits especially when there is little purpose to thebreeding. Having rescue bunnies has made me all too familiarwith that.
What bothers me the most about so many 'for and against' arguments isthe anger that is generated. Neither side listens, learns oris persuaded by shouting, rudeness, bullying, name callingandbad behavior.
I also feel it is incumbent upon the adults on the forum to set a goodtone and a good example for the younger, minor members.Parents should feelconfident there kids won't be exposed tosome foaming, raging adult's bared backside.
pamnock
Well-Known Member
seniorcats wrote:
Hey -- I've been know to act in a civilized manner on occasion :wink:
Pam
Thanks Pam, I'm glad we can have a civilized discussion.
Hey -- I've been know to act in a civilized manner on occasion :wink:
Pam
I am known to be as subtle as a brick ,
I was going to respond to thisthread but I have decided ifeveryone thinks its so great tobe associated with peopleand porganizations who are onthe top of a list for knownterrorism far be it from meto try and change their minds .
I was going to respond to thisthread but I have decided ifeveryone thinks its so great tobe associated with peopleand porganizations who are onthe top of a list for knownterrorism far be it from meto try and change their minds .
Stan_and_Jane
Well-Known Member
pamnock wrote:
Oh how true that is, I just don't think she had her head straight about who is the slave!
Oh how true that is, I just don't think she had her head straight about who is the slave!
Kadish Tolesa
Well-Known Member
Stan-and-Jane , I am SLAVE to 7 adult-ishbuns and 6 promised babies. Two are indoor buns and the rest are outdoorshow buns.
All I ever hear is..." mywater bottle's getting low....how about some more pellets ? ....sometoys WOULD be nice..."
And so on ....!!!!!!
No rest for the ....slave!!
Thanks for the neat post ;I'm almost tempted to print it and save it !
Kadish Tolesainkpansy:
Two are indoor buns and the rest are outdoorshow buns.All I ever hear is..." mywater bottle's getting low....how about some more pellets ? ....sometoys WOULD be nice..."
And so on ....!!!!!!
No rest for the ....slave!!
Thanks for the neat post ;I'm almost tempted to print it and save it !
Kadish Tolesa
inkpansy:
