Excessive Scratching/Grooming Resumes...

[Jenk]

After administering Revolution to four of our animals, our recently-adopted bun stopped his excessive grooming/scratching for about a week's time; over the past few days, he's again resumed them. (Yesterday, I saw our cat shake his head, as if irritated, which I'dnever before seen him do.)

Is it possible that a second dose of Revolution will end the issue?(Alas, Oct. 28thmarks one month from the first dose; it seemslike a long time to wait for a redose if the problems are recurring now.)

Thank you,

Jenk

 

[dquesnel]

Hi Jenk, I would not give any animal another dose of Revolution until one month passes. Revolution is meant to last the full month. If problems are already recurring, I would rule mites/fleas out as a cause, especially if they were not found in a skin scraping either. fleas/mites die when they bite skin treated with Advantage- so it is not possible they would survive and continue to live on the animals. Even if more mites/fleas went on the animals, they would die. So I would definately rule this out as a problem.

Stress is known to cause dermatitis, resulting in itching and skin flaking. If a rabbit is experiencing or sensing stress, it could cause this as a physical response, or the scratching/grooming could actually be a behavioral reaction to stress.

Dry skin could be an issue as most of us are moving from warm humid summer to drier fall/winter. I have a cat that has flaking dermatitis caused by dry skin- we feed him fish oil but I would NOT give an animal product or any oil to a rabbit, it could be very dangerous. A humidifier would be a better solution.

I also have a rabbit that is a totally itchy scratchy guy. He just does it- he is not like the others this way but it is just the way he is. He does not have mites or dry skin.

If it were my rabbit, I would leave it be unless the scratching is actually causing raw skin or blood. What seems excessive to us may not be to the rabbit, especially if you cn already rule out most aggressors that would cause it.

 

[Jenk]

dquesnel wrote:

...I would not give any animal another dose of Revolution until one month passes. Revolution is meant to last the full month. If problems are already recurring, I would rule mites/fleas out as a cause, especially if they were not found in a skin scraping either.

I agree; I certainly don't want to O.D. my animals on anything, much less a drug as potent as Revolution.

What's odd, though, is that I've noticed my cat scratching his ears more often. He was dosed with Revolution, as well; just yesterday, I saw him shake his head, as if bothered by his ears. (The vet found no sign of irritation/mites within my bunner's and cat's ears.)

Stress is known to cause dermatitis, resulting in itching and skin flaking. If a rabbit is experiencing or sensing stress, it could cause this as a physical response, or the scratching/grooming could actually be a behavioral reaction to stress.

It's possible that the stress of joining a new home is affecting him physically (at the skin level); but that doesn't quite explain why he stopped scratching/grooming so much shortly after his Revolution dose and then resumed both behaviors.

I've seen the dry flakes on his head (near the base of his ears), but he scratches/chews on himself elsewhere.

He's been with us for three weeks' now. I'd have thought that his stress would be decreasing by now; he seems fairly well-settled into our home routine.

Dry skin could be an issue as most of us are moving from warm humid summer to drier fall/winter. I have a cat that has flaking dermatitis caused by dry skin- we feed him fish oil but I would NOT give an animal product or any oil to a rabbit, it could be very dangerous. A humidifier would be a better solution.

Due to allergies to dust/dander, I can't have a humidifier in the house. (The nice, warm moisture is beyond inviting to dust mites.)

I also have a rabbit that is a totally itchy scratchy guy. He just does it- he is not like the others this way but it is just the way he is. He does not have mites or dry skin.

At least I know that myguy does have dry skin; the cause is the mystery.

If it were my rabbit, I would leave it be unless the scratching is actually causing raw skin or blood. What seems excessive to us may not be to the rabbit, especially if you cn already rule out most aggressors that would cause it.

He has scratched the inside of his earsenough to cause dried spots of blood on them; he's causedsmall scabs on the outside of his ears, as well. He also seems to shake his head a lot, but that, of course, doesn't necessarily mean ear mites (which weren't found by the vet). It could just be that his ears itch (and/or hurt from all the scratching).

 

[Maureen Las]

http://www.jarvm.com/articles/Vol5Iss3/Beck%2087-96.pdf
hi Jenk
Ifound this article and took it to my shelter for a reference guide last summer. I haven't reviewed it closesly recently, however , I think a certain type of mite is described in here that sounds like what your guy may possibly have .

 

[Jenk]

angieluv,

After perusing the article, it seems like Cheyletiella spp or Leporacarus gibbus could be culprits. (I have read, though, that ear mites can be transferred between rabbits and cats; so that's still a possibility.)

Then again, it could be dermatitis, which would open up a whole 'nuther mystery. Because if it is dermatitis, is it caused by stress, the transition from a cheap mixed hay to timothy hay, or even an allergic reaction to my cat? :?

I may just agreed to treating all four furred animals with Revolution once more at the end of this month; but if the scratching doesn't subside, I'll start considering more natural treatments for dermatitis.

 

[dquesnel]

Hi Jenk, that sounds like a really good plan you have.

For now, it seems unlikely for Cheyletiella spp or Leporacarus gibbus mites to be suspect as they would be killed daily by the effects of the revolution still on the animals bodies. It doesn't mean they aren't present in the environment though. Perhaps the vet can take another skin scraping when they go in for their next revolution doses at the end of the month?

If I hear of any rabbit safe dermatitis relief I will pass it on to you.

 

[AngelnSnuffy]

I hope you find out what it is, Jenk, eck. I've been having the same trouble with our cat having fleas, over and over this season. Seems they've been a real problem, per our vet.:grumpy:

I had to take our cat in two weeks ago for what I thought might be mites, but ended up being fleas...again:X. (She had these bumps above her eyes from scratching, etc.)

So, I found out alot! Firstly, to find out if your pet has "fleas"? Put them in a carrier, check for "dander" it looks like a comma, my vet said. He proceeded to tell me that by spaying water on them (the dander), wait a bit, and since fleas consume blood, they'll poop blood, so the "dander-poop" should be reddish. Yep, it was!:? Never heard that complex of an answer before, soo cool! So, KeeKee was treated and I bought "Knock Out" spray to spray the house, where she must be getting them, although, I don't see how. The vet upon asking this question answered, as they're "host specific" you may not see them around you, which we don't. Weird. So, anywho, I bought the spray for $25. He said to just spray the perimeters of the rooms, and do it again in two weeks. That way, you are also treating what may have been layed, which will hatch in almost that time and make a beeline for a dark area.

(-This needs to be added to the Library! So, I'll be adding it soon.)

 

[Jenk]

My guy didn't exhibit any signs of parasitic irritationwhen I visited him for two hours at the shelter. If this isa case of fleas (or mites), I'm going bonkers over ideas of where hemay have picked them up. He could've caught something shortly before leaving the shelter. It could've beenthe vet's office. (He went there the second day that we had him.) But who'sto say that my parents didn't transmit something to him during their visit two weekends ago? (He wasn't scratching prior to their visit.)

My husband is not a happy camper right now. Firstly, he didn't want a third rabbit (i.e., a sixth animal). So now that we may be facing more expenses (for unexpected vet care and parasite removal). Another thing that sucks is that vacuum bags get wasted, since you're supposed to throw them out relatively quickly (in less than a month's time, I believe); fleas/mites can repopulate within the bag and, thus, re-infest the home.

Is "Knock Out" spray safe to use around all animals (including birds)? I'd never heard of it before.

 

[AngelnSnuffy]

Jenk wrote:

Another thing that sucks is that vacuum bags get wasted, since you're supposed to throw them out relatively quickly (in less than a month's time, I believe); fleas/mites can repopulate within the bag and, thus, re-infest the home.

Is "Knock Out" spray safe to use around all animals (including birds)? I'd never heard of it before.

Not sure if I mentioned this before, but one of our Sr Mods, Naturestee, suggested the first time I went through this, she said to put a flea collar in the vacuum bag. Brilliant. Our vacuum is new nonw, just got it; a Dyson:weee:, never thought I'd get one or if me or hubby would imagine spending that on a vacuum. I have to say, since you can see what comes out of the carpet?:shock: Worth it! As far as fleas, I had vacummed the other night, hadn't sprayed the area there yet and mentioned to hubby about this and he said they couldn't get out of it, I was wondering about this as the Dyson we have is plastic, no bag:?.

I got the Knockout at the vet, he said to take animals out of the room for a half hour, or til it mostly dries.

It does say on the can, not to use around birds, remove them from the room.Yes, it's safe.And same thing my vet said to do with all pets, so they would be fine if you used it. It also says to cover aquariums and remove fish from them before using.

 

[Jenk]

At this point, I suspect mites (vs. fleas). My cat is barely scratching, but our new bun still is scratching more frequently; our other two buns are scratching more often at their ear/face/neck areas. I, too, feel an occasional sharp pinch on various areas of my body, but nothing is visible to the eye-- another reason that I suspect mites.

What's very scary is that my parents went through a horrible ordeal to rid their home, pets, and themselves of sarcoptic mites. For the first three weeks' time, my mom thought she was imagining the feel of little pinprick pinches on occasion. (She thought it was psychosamatic because she was seeing their dog and cat scratching excessively at their ears.) It took a month's time for an infestation to get out of hand.

I don't want to sit on my laurels and let something infest further until we need to pay thousands of dollars to deal with it. I did speak to the vet last night about my concerns, but she only suggested keeping the animals on Revolution and vacuuming the house several days in a row. (I've read that with fleas and/or mites, the house needs to be vacuumed for 10-21 days straight!) Plus, I don't want to keep my animals on a drug as potent as Revolution for months at a time.

Edited to add: Due to my allergies, we bought a rather pricey vacuum cleaner made by SEBO. It's made in Germany,contains powerful HEPA filtration and is recommended by many allergy-related websites. It's a fantastic machine. What worries me, though, is the idea of having to vacuum and throw away the vacuum bag daily to prevent mites from possibly re-infesting the bag.

 

[Maureen Las]

Sarcoptic mites are mange mites. MangeUSUALLY show up on a skin scraping andwould be easier to diagnose in an animals than a fur mite
mange (sarcoptic) is devastating.

Are you sure this is the type of mite found in your parents home?

One of the vets treated a guinea pig with it at the shelter; the pig was totally red and had lost all hair.
Did you read medi-rabbit and view the pics.?

Sarcoptic mange in a rabbit is usually treated with 3 ivermectin injection 1 per week for 3 weeks.

I'm not sure that you have sarcoptic mites in your home


http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Skin_diseases/Parasitic/burrowingmite.PDF

 

[Jenk]

angieluv wrote:

Sarcoptic mites are mange mites. MangeUSUALLY show up on a skin scraping andwould be easier to diagnose in an animals than a fur mite mange (sarcoptic) is devastating.

Oh, I know that sarcoptic mites are mange mites. When my parents' home was infested with mites (whatever the type), no skin scraping tests (on their dog and my mom) showed positive for mites; yet their home was definitely infested with them. They could feel the mites crawling on their skin, as well as biting them.

How quickly does sarcoptic mange take to develop the classic symptoms (i.e., the crusting/thickening of the skin)?

Are you sure this is the type of mite found in your parents home?

AmI entirely sure? No. But they definitely had some form of mites (twice, and between two different homes).

My parents' first mite issue wasthought to be caused by a wood decorationthat apparently hadn't beentreated for mites. (They were diagnosed as wood mites.) The second time around, my mom was told (by either a vet or human doctor, I forget) that sarcoptic mites were suspected, especially since skin scrapings didn't reveal them, yet my parents and their pets went through itching/scratching hell.

One of the vets treated a guinea pig with it at the shelter; the pig was totally red andhad lost all hair.

But what do the early stages of mange look like? When my guy started scratching his forehead/ear region, his reddish skin became noticeable. I assume that he'd lost some hair, which make it more visible.

Did you read medi-rabbit and view the pics.?

I did; thankfully, no pet in the house looks like that. But we're only 2-2.5 weeks into the scratching. Does mange really cause such hair loss and skin issues that quickly, or does it take longer to reach that stage?

I'm definitely feeling pinprick sensations that I didn't have prior to the new guy starting to scratch; that really worries me at this point. As I've said, my mom thought she was imagining the biting sensations when they started and waited three weeks before acknowledging that there was an issue; by then, it was a big issue.

Sarcoptic mange in a rabbit is usually treated with 3 ivermectin injection 1 per week for 3 weeks.

The vet mentioned ivermectin but says that she now treats external parasites with Revolution.I wonder, though, if mites (or at least sarcoptic ones)are killed by Revolution. I'll check into that shortly.

 

[Maureen Las]

According to Dana Krempels the selamectin (revolution)should be fine .....




http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/furloss.html#abnormal

 

[Jenk]

angieluv wrote:

According to Dana Krempels the selamectin (revolution)should be fine .....

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/furloss.html#abnormal

I just spoke with a vet tech. at my bunnies' (now-back-up) vet's office. She said that if we suspect fleas or mites, vacuuming the entire house daily is about the main form of attack. She also said that they offer an herbal powder that's sprinkled on carpeting and upholstery that's later vacuumed up.

So whether it'sfleas or some form of mites, I'm dreading having tomove furniture and items laying on closet floors.I hatethe idea of losing1.5-2 hours' time vacuumingdaily. Even worse is having to throw away a brand-new vacuum bag every day (sincea box costs $18 for 10 bags). So possibly having to vacuum the entire house for at least 10-14 days has me a bit in knots.

 

[AngelnSnuffy]

AngelnSnuffy wrote:

Jenk wrote:

Another thing that sucks is that vacuum bags get wasted, since you're supposed to throw them out relatively quickly (in less than a month's time, I believe); fleas/mites can repopulate within the bag and, thus, re-infest the home.

Is "Knock Out" spray safe to use around all animals (including birds)? I'd never heard of it before.

I got the Knockout at the vet, he said to take animals out of the room for a half hour, or til it mostly dries.

It does say on the can, not to use around birds, remove them from the room.Yes, it's safe.And same thing my vet said to do with all pets, so they would be fine if you used it. It also says to cover aquariums and remove fish from them before using.

Do they not carry this that I mentioned? Knockout?onder:

All you have to do is spray the perimeters of every room with carpet, no mention of furniture. We haven't seen them on any furniture anyway, are yours? They just recommend removing pets from the room you spray for a half hour.

Keep usposted!