Criticize my rabbits diet

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stargazerLily

stargazerLily

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Jul 29, 2007
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North of Dayton, Ohio, USA
I have three rabbits, two who are adults, one who is a baby. The two adults get the same thing, since they are of similar size, and the baby gets a different diet. I feel like there could be more I could be giving them, but I want some other people to look over my diet and give me some ideas. So with out further adieu, here is the diet.

Orion and Galaxy:
They get 1/8 cup pellets (oxbow bunny T) daily along with a pie pan full of veggies (roughly 2-3 cups). Usually I feed them any of the following: romaine, red and green leaf lettuce, carrots and tops, cilantro, parsley, mustard, collard and turnip greens, dandilion greens (when I can find them at the store), spinach and kale (in small amounts, can I give this more often?), brussel sprouts, snow peas (the pea pod things), endive, argula(don't know if it's good for them or not, but it looks similar to baby romaine), and I'm sure there are a few more things. Fruit wise, I don't give it often, but when I do, it's apple slices, banana pieces, melon (cantelope, honeydew, watermelon), and cranberries. Oh, and when my vet gives me fresh oats, I throw a pinch in their pellets. They also get unlimited timothy and grass hays.

Nebula (at 3 months):
Free fed pellets (oxbow bunny 15/23 and manna pro gro formula mixed together), also gets some veggies: collard greens, mustard greens, kale, spinach, carrot tops and small amount of carrots, snow peas, cilatro, parsley, romaine, green and red leaf lettuce. He gets small amouts of veggies until he gets used to them. Also gets unlimited alfalfa, timothy and grass hays.

What else can I give them? Or does the above look like a decent diet? Can I give sweet potato?

Orion will sometimes become more active than Galaxy and burn his calories faster, so during those times I up his veggies and give him 1/4 cup pellets until he evens out again.

Thanks
Betsy
 
Hi!

Having read a big part ofwhatever there is to readout thereabout rabbit diet, including medical articles and forumthreads,my conclusion was, firstly, that this must be the most debated rabbit-related issue and, secondly, that, more or less, without pushing to the limit, each rabbit is a case of its own. This means that a certain diet canwork fine for one rabbit and cause health issues to another rabbit. For example, broccoli, brussel sprouts and cabbage, which are considered as gassy veggies, can be well toleratedby one rabbit and send another rabbit into a serious gas bout. Some rabbits tolerate well lettuces, other get diarrhea even witha couple of bites. Some can eat sugary fruit without any visibleproblems, some can go even into GI stasis from doing this.

As far as a bigger or lesser variety of daily veggies would be the optimum, this is also debated. HRS suggests 3-5 different and differently coloured (i.e. green - e.g. dill, endive etc., red - e.g. red leaf lettuce, tomato (limited, as it contains sugar, the same goes for carrots) veggies per day, in quantities according to the rabbit's weight.On the other side there is apart of the vet worldwhich maintains that rabbit's intestine physiology cannot cope with a lot of different kind of substances, as ituses different bacteria todigest different types of food, so the rabbit's intestinal flora can be disturbed by abig number of different elements to process.So, there is also the suggestion (more recent one) that veggies should be given, if at all, 2-3 times per week only as a treat.

Talking about veggies, some maintain that greens can be given to young rabbits (after having started them on hay and pellets) after weaning, some others maintain that veggies should be introduced only after the 6th month of age, because they may cause even fatal diarrhea to baby rabbits.

By the way, spinach and kale should be rarely fed, as they contain high oxalate levels and may be toxic when accumulated in the rabbit's organism over a period of time. Dandelion, endive, collard greens andparsley contain high calcium levels, so, relevant articles suggest that are to be given in moderate amounts and not on an everyday basis. Sweet potato, as all potatoes, is a NO-NO! Please check on the safeveggies/safe fruits lists. When feeding apples, you should take off the stem and seeds, as it's toxic, the same goes with tomato leafs and stem.

The only beneficial and most important nutritional element that everybody agrees upon feeding is hay in unlimited quantities - for adult rabbits, alfalfa is to be given, if at all, in moderate quantities, as it contains high protein levels. High protein levels in alfalfa hay or cubes or in pellets, especially if given in bigger quantities leads to obesity (check on Pam's article dealing with obesity), GI tract issues, etc.

So, you see that the diet issue is something so widely debated among rabbit physiologists and vets,which can makeus, simple bunny parents, who have no special knowledge on this, feel at a loss (I, certainly, felt like this at some point of time), because the more information you accumulate, the more doubts you have as far as the correctrabbit diet is concerned. Ibelieve that you should experiment a bit on how each of your bunnies' GI tract reacts with the varieties and/or quantities provided. Off course, each change should be effected within a period of about 1.5-2 weeks, so that the GI tract gets used to this changes.

In general, I believe that lots and lots of hay (which should be the No. 1 nutrition element), moderate good quality (= high in fibre, low in calcium and protein) pellets (according to the rabbit's weight and age), a moderate amount of veggies (if your bunnies tolerate them well) and absolutely no commercial treats and pellet mixes should be fine.


Do take the time to read the excellent files on rabbit diet, hay, pellets, veggies in Rabbit 101 section here. It will give you a lot of interesting and useful information on feeding your bunnies.

Sorry about the long answer, but diet is really a big, unsolved issue.
Marietta

 
Mairetta

I think that you gave a really greatinformative response.
I think that it is difficult for us to think, sometimes, that hay is as essential to rabbits as it is and basically more important than the greens and fruits.
I feed greens but have spoiled my rabbits in their expectations of large daily luscious salads which all in all cost me a lot of $ for 7 rabbits.
Sometimes I wish I wouldn't have started "all the greens" but its too late now because they wait for it.

And in my 7 their is one that cannot eat any kale with out a gas attack.

I don't feed any broccoli, brussel sprouts because I feel that if it gives me terrible gas what will it do to them :biggrin2:
 
Great response from Marietta! :yes:

I will say that I didn't think parsley was that high in calcium, and regardless, it's only an issue if one has a rabbit prone to bladder sludge or stones or consistently has white pee. The high water content in veggies usually negates the calcium, I believe most percentages are calculatedon a dry weight basis. But that's another one of those opinion things. ;) The only veggies I stay away from are collard and mustard greens, their calcium content is substantially higher. (I'm goingby memory here).

Also don't forget the pinned thread at the top of this forum by Naturestee:

PIN: Feeding Your Rabbit Q&A



sas :)
 
Thank you all for your kind comments, diet is one of the things that has puzzled me a lot, moreover because I have a bunny with a sensitive GI tract, so I must be extra careful on what I'm feeding him.

I also have to read a lot about rabbit issues, because, as I've mentioned in the past, in my country there are no rabbit vets (!!! yes, it's true, I've search and asked even in the one Animal Hospital we have in Athens...nobody knows anything about rabbits!) for 2 reasons: firstly because rabbits became popular only 5-7 years ago, so they are a new field for vets and secondly because, sadly enough, a lot of irresponsible and cold-hearted rabbit owners, who see their pets as "things", prefer to "buy another one, they're cheap (!!!)" rather than pay expensive vet bills and medicins to cure their rabbit, believe it or not!!! So, the vets don't have the money initiative to learn how to treat the so called "small animals". I have to add here that in Greece there are no rabbit shelters either, so we don't have the option of rescuing a bunny, which would be a blessing for us and the animal, we can only buy from pet shops (not even from breeders, most breeds are imported, though in the past 5 years there are a few breeders in the countryside, who, mainly, sell "in bulk" to pet stores). So, you see how far from being rabbit-ejucated we are in this country. But this is another story.

So, since no vet can help me here in health issues (I live by dreading the moment I'll have to face another health emergency...), I have to get information and knowledge from the Internet and books and try to minimize health risks beforehand, to the extend that I can.

Angieluv, it's not too late to reduce the veggies in your bunnies' diet. You just have to cut down little by little over a long period of time (abt. 2 weeks or so, in order to avoid GI tract issues), increasing at the same time the hay intake quantity (they'll do it by themselves anyway, since they'll be hungry!). I did that with great success with my Vitto, after his serious GI stasis bout last September (his first and -I pray to God- his last, it was horrible to have a bunny not pooping, syringe feeding him water and pellets for 12 days..) and a diarrhea incident on November. I used to give him 4 cups of 4-6 different veggies per day, which he absolutely loved, but I gradually cut down the veggies, he now eats a lot more hay than he used to, and 2 cups of wild greens and herbs (i.e. the kind he could find in nature and not the garden veggie types) every other day, half in the morning and half in the evening, just for the taste. That's it. Since today, I never had any stasis or diarrhea problems, which is a great relief. This change was contemplated because, after having attempted different approaches to his diet, I posted a thread here in RO called "Pellets versus Veggies", on which I got valuable answers from experienced people (thank you all, guys, I treasured your views!!!). I especially valued the breeders' opinion that I've read here and in other forums, who, basically, say that they never had any GI tract or dental problems with their rabbits, the way we bunny parents do, because they only feed them unlimited hay and limited pellets. They insist that this is a dietary problem and I have no reason to doubt what breeders have to say (good ones, who care about their animals, that is), they know better, as they deal with hundreds of rabbits, whereas I've only had 2 so far. So, I believe that you can change whatever you think it's not right in their diet, so long that you do it gradually.

Pipp, you're right that percentages are calculated in a dry material basis and that water in fresh veggies lowers the calcium levels. Also that a bunny which is prone to sludge will get kindney trouble from a high calcim diet, whereas another which is not predisposed won't. About parsley, yes, I was surprised too to read it should be fed in moderate amounts because of calcium and it's a pitty because it's so tasty and bunnies love it, plus that it contains a lot of vitamins and minerals.

Anyway, thanks all for the stimulating dialogue in such an interesting issue!

Marietta
 
Marietta wrote:
About parsley, yes, I was surprised too to read it should be fed in moderate amounts because of calcium and it's a pitty because it's so tasty and bunnies love it, plus that it contains a lot of vitamins and minerals.
Click to expand...
Isn't thislike saying torestrict hydration in bunnies because it could be bad for congestive heart failure? Probably 95% of the time, hydration is recommended, but 5% of the time a SubQ infusion could be dangerous, only for a very specific set of circumstances.

While variety is still the key, and nobunny should get too much of anything, parsley is oneof the best bunny diet staplesin this house(it's second onlyto carrot tops), although I do alternate between flat-leafItalian and curly-leaf English. (They prefer Italian, which I believe is much lower in calcium, although it honestly doesn't matter much). I do believe it's actually a kidney anti-toxin as well.

So while your information is correct, I just really hate to see people take this as a warning and ignore the explanation. If it was a really high calcium count (like mustard greens) I'dbe more inclined to to say something, but parsley isn't ALLthat high. The calcium levels are acontested issue, but I thinkthatit's really only an issue for bunnies with sludge problems, orpossiblyfor bunny guardians who consistently feed high calicium food with little variety.

The other thing to consider is how unreliable the counts actually are, because different environments produce significantly different counts. (If you search on 'avocado', I recently posted an artcle about how one variety of avocado can be deadly while another has no affect at all. The Bunny 101 'Hay' thread illustrates the vast differences as well). It's honestly not worth worrying about if you have a normal healthy rabbit.

(And don't mind the mini-rant, the iceberg lettuce thing sets me off as well, only because so many people act like the stuff is toxic. NO problem feeding your bunnies some iceberg lettuce, it's just not a great staple because of the high water content and low nutrients. But putting it in a salad won'tkill them!)

sas :biggrin2:
 
Sas, what you wrote is great!
And yes, I saw the avocado conversation and that was the first time I ever read anything on avocado, let alone different kinds of avocado being toxic or not. That was an interest issue to talk about. In regard to parsley, you know what? You are right!!! Sometimes we, bunny moms, get paranoid over the possibility of something happening to our buns. For me, not having any rabbit vet help, it's even worse, as you can understand.

Switching between the 2 types of parsley is very clever, I didn't know about the less calcium content in the italian parsley, which is what we have in Greece, so I'll follow your view and start giving again to my bun parsley now and then, he likes it so much!

In regard to what I wrote about calcium or about the diet in general, it certainly is not a warning of any kind, it's pure info written in various articles and books I've read and a part of it is also based on personal observations I've made in diet habits. I'm not a vet, I don't have any specialised knowledge whatsoever and I also know that everything that's written in the Internet is not always sound advice. We should, in parallel, use our brains plus see what works with our own bunnies, as I've said, every bun is an individual case.

Having started this topic, it would be interesting to hear what practice other members follow with their rabbits' diet.

Marietta
 
I just found this wonderful post. This reminds me of the bewilderment we humans run in to, too when trying to keep our own diets at the most "optimum" healthy level... what is truly healthy? Low fat, high fat, low carb, etc. ;) ;) Greatly enjoyed all the info!
 
Dear Raspberry82, believe me, when it comes to diet, Vitto's is more important than mine!!! He's the prince of the house, THE #1 priority and his food is on the top of my shopping list. I imagine that if I were left with my last dime, I'd rather buy food for him than me. I'm that crazyfor this little bun!!!!!

Thanks for your comment, it's really interesting debating about diet,this conversationnever ends, anyway!

Marietta
 
(Marietta and Sas...love your posts!)

I do know there are some people who advocate diets rich in variety for bunnies, while some say a rabbit can be just as healthy on a good-quality hay/pellet diet and nothing else added. For my own preference, I tend to give all of my animals (rabbits, dog, and cat (not cats, as one of my kitties is extremely sensitive to most foods)) a variety in their diet. I'd always thought that any animal would get bored eating the same thing day in, day out, so I do try and keep their diets healthy, but with variety. And as Marietta mentioned, what might not bother one rabbit could affect another very differently, so it's all about knowing what foods are good and what ones aren't, and knowing what your pet can and cannot tolerate.

On a note about parsley, Raph had sludge issues when he became fully disabled (had to express his bladder for him, and sometimes his urine was very gritty and thick, the consistency of pudding), and at first I removed all parsley from his diet because of the higher calcium content. However, in talking to others who had disabled rabbits, many found that parsley didn't add to the sludge issues. So I slowly reintroduced it into his diet, as he absolutely loved the stuff. And it didn't seem to bother him at all. Raph's urine did return to a much clearer state with time (and expressing) and parsley once again became part of his daily meals. Thankfully, the sludge never did come back.
 
Thanks for the input, Bussetluv! I'mglad that you confirm Sas' position about parsley, because thanks toher comments in this thread, I re-introduced Italian parsley to my bun's diet, who is so fond of its wonderfultaste.

So, both from Vitto and me: THANK YOU SAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Marietta
 
Interesting discussion!

And Stargazerlily, your diet looks perfect to me! I try to feed a wide variety of veggies to my bunnies but parsley and romaine seem to be the staples around here. Youre doing a great job with your bunnies!
 
Pipp wrote:
If it was a really high calcium count (like mustard greens) I'dbe more inclined to to say something, but parsley isn't ALLthat high.
Click to expand...

Just a note here.. parsley is actually one of the highest in calcium content (higher even than mustard greens per cup). It was the first thing my vet had my strike from my bunny diet. Misty is prone to sludge, so I have to control her calcium levels. Charlie and Oliver on the other hand have no issues, and enjoy parsley will no ill effects.


 
Not feeding a rabbit veggies is typically true for rabbits with unknown back grounds.

I have fostered and raised quite a few litters and I have fed them all veggies from the time they started eating solid food. I would give them what ever I gave mom. I know many others who have done the same. When the babies are still nursing and getting antibodies from mom is the safest time, in my opinion, to introduce them to their life long diet. I do monitor after every new food for upset tummies, but I have yet to have any upset tummies.

If you are not sure if the rabbit was fed veggies or not while with mom, it's best to be cautious. Only give one veggie at a time and start with nice dark green leafy greens. As long as the bun is introduced slowly and monitored carefully, I see no reason to wait till 6 months.

--Dawn
 
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