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gentle giants

gentle giants

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On the Linebreeding/inbreeding thread, Tiny's Mom mentioned that it seemed to her that a lot of Flemish that have that big broad head (I will try and post pics of my buck as example) tend to have heart problems. I have one buck, two and half years, who has an enlarged heart on one side. I have kept his son, Sammy, who also has the broad head, mostly because of the head. Ben, the older buck, has been my herd buck before his heart problem was discovered. I need to do some research on this, and find out if the "big head" really is linked to heart problems, because obviously if this is true I will need to get a different buck, and I guess get Sammy neutered or something, cause I know I can't give him up.
 
Here are some interesting links to read....and something to consider is - are those big heads part of the standard of perfection (or are you just breeding for pets and that is what folks like??)

http://www.nffgrb.com/  National Club Site

http://www.nffgrb.com/FlemishAr<WBR>ticles.html

http://www.nffgrb.com/Articles<WBR>/Article-GoodFlemish-Richards<WBR>.html&nbsp; - a really neat article

http://www.nffgrb.com/Articles<WBR>/Article-GettingStarted<WBR>-Flemish.html&nbsp; - another neat article
 
The broad head is desired. I&#39;ve noted that the rabbits with large, broad heads generally also haveheavy bone. (Desired in the Flemish)

Is is possible that some of the rabbits with enlarged hearts also have broad heads? Yes, many gene mutation effect other parts of the body. However, not all rabbits with broad heads would have the mutation, so it would not be a reliable method of detecting heart disease. Heart disease may be sex linked in some cases, and some forms can be more common in males.

There are a number of types of heart diseases that are inheritable in rabbits. In some cases, this problem may not be evident until after a couple years of linebreeding. Identifying carriers can be very difficult.

Pam
 
I know Ben did get pretty overweight at one point too, could that have caused, or triggered, his heart problem? I got my starting stock from a very reputable breeder, and I would think if he had this in his herd he would know? He&#39;s been breeding a long time.
 
Wow, an American Blue? I thought those were really rare? I looked them up, and top wieght for a buck is 9lbs, so that wouldn&#39;t have been overweight for him, right?

I thought of something else, not about heart problems-do any of you guys use solid floors for your Flemish? I do, at least for part of them, and a problem I have in the winter is cleaning the cages out. They pee on the floor of course, and then that and all the straw/litter I have in there for them freezes solid and I can&#39;t get it out. Does anyone else have this problem, and how do you deal with it?
 
Yes, American Blues are extremely rare. White is also a showable variety (the name was changed to simply "American" a number of years ago). I had a steel colored pure-bred Amercian.

Pam
 
Pam, here is a good pic of him, but not the whole body. What do you think he was? That is just what the vet said he was, I really wasn&#39;t sure, I kinda always thought he was a New Zealand maybe.

Thanks Pam! Here you go!

BunBun<WBR>.jpg

 
Is it just the camera, or mabye me, but he looks black in that pic? Very handsome, BTW. Those ears almost say Flemish to me.
 
Yeah, he was black, but had that blue offset in sunshine, light. Dunno. He was very beautiful for sure!

Are Blues lighter in colour then?

P.S. I don't mean to hijack your thread at all. I do have another pic of me holding him that might help determine what he was. He disliked being held, so, you can see, he's trying to bite himself in this one I think, but you can see the comparison of his size to human. Look at his back feetzies undersides :shock:. (AndI look gross here too.)

MVC-034S.jpg


 
Yes, I&#39;ve seen Raven! (They do look a bit alike, huh?) That&#39;s why I was like "Hard to adopt out?" Not for me!!! :shock: He was big and beautiful! And a bit of tude of course!:D
 
It&#39;s hard to say without being able to feel his coat. Could be a New Zealand (black is not a common color in New Zealands), Satin mix, or other larger mixed breed.

The coat can tell a lot about the rabbit. New Zealand&#39;s have a flyback coat with numerous guardhairs. A breed such as the Beveren would have a longer, softer coat.

Photos of New Zealands are here:

http://www.afnzrb.org/]http:/<WBR>/www.afnzrb.org/[/url]

A black New Zealand won Best of Breed at ARBA Nationals in 2006 -very exciting because whites generally win.

Pam
 
Many rescues often call mixed breed rabbits "american" and most vets had very little education on exotic care and handling much less breed characteristics, not that they don&#39;t know anything about medical care to rabbits, they may just not be as breed savvy as the breeders are.

I haven&#39;t ever noticed heart problems with broad head bucks. I think the heart problem is more connected to overweight flemish giants as this is a huge health problem with most flemish giants. even a few extra pounds can affect their health. Like someone also said the standard calls for a broad head so by trying to cut that out of your line you won&#39;t be breeding to the standard, so I would try doing some more research or talk to your vet about other factors that could cause the large heart and see what other possibilities you come up with.
 
OK, I got pics of Sammy&#39;s big ol&#39; head finally downloaded onto the puter, so here we go. I tried to get a head shot of his father, Ben, too, but my camera batteries died! Dang it.

DSCF0476.jpg




DSCF0473.jpg
 
Well, thanks guys for your info. That is a very beautiful bun.

Well, the vet said the condition could be due to genetics. He did have a poster in one of the exam rooms of various breeds too. Dunno. BunBun was labeled "American" in their records. Who knows. He could have been mixed, I got him from a pet store. He was my first bun.:)
 
I forgot to add, about my pics of Sammy, if anyone more experienced than me ( I think that&#39;s most of you!) has any comments about his type, good or bad, please share them with me. I am always interested in hearing what other breeders/judges have to say about my rabbits, I know very well I tend to be hutch-blind!
 
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