Called the Vet about nueter today

[Orchid]

As far as I know there are three places in the area that deal with Rabbits.
Randy, if I am wrong please let me know who else I might be able to call...thanks!

Dixie Trail - which I have already decided Simon will never go back to..

Bowman and Avian and Exitoc. I called both of these guys today and below is what I was told. So here are my questions.

How do you feel about what they said, what they do, the time frames, food, feeding, meds, etc. Has anyone ever heard of this new anesthesia they told me they are using now?
Also I was thinking of having Simon chipped for the what in case factor. I don't know if I could afford it but I am thinking about doing it...how does every one feel about chipped bunnies?

Thanks in advance


AVIAN & EXOTIC
They feel 4-6 months is best - $304.50 to $403.60(high end includes the night stay for just in case, fecal) Surgery, medications, supplies, anesthesia, heart monitoring, Oral pain meds & antibiotic's for home, fluids, physical,
Drop off night before, they take away food and water in the morning and hand feed when they wake up. Without food for about 2 hours, than time under -
He would come home that day - if there was a problem he would probably stay the night.
They have new anesthesia....they go under faster and wake up quicker - (Seva Flourine) Used in human child -
Surgery last 30 minutes - injections of pain meds before surgery -
One incision - suture on the inside - desolving and than glue on the outside.
Physical done in the morning to make sure he is ok.
Blood panel - prep panel to run values ($112 for full -sent out) - (prep is $68.00 run in house) Not included in the price quote. My choice - can opt to not have it.
Pick up before 6pm...and will call me as soon as he is done
** Micro Chipping - 66.00 - trovan - one time fee and register with them. **

BOWMAN
Called and no one could tell me anything. They said they could take my name and number and have someone call me back. I asked...there is not one person currently on staff that could give me a quote and tell me what that includes and she said no. That the vet and the staff that deal with exotics are not there and no one could tell me, they could call me back. I asked well what happened if I needed something in an emergency and they said they would try to get in touch with one of the 2 exotic docs they use. I did NOT feel good about this.

 

[ra7751]

I have no problem with A&E at all. I also like the Sevo they are now using. We have seen that inhalant before and it's great. All three doctors there are world class.

As far as Bowman, I think it's time for me to have a chat about their client services. They have a relatively new practice manager and I have never been overly pleased with the direction of the place since she came in. I get "special treatment" because Dr. D has laid down the law as far as how things go when it comes to our rabbits. Dr. D, and her back up Dr. Hunt, are both world class doctors. We couldn't do all the things we do without their support. I would really like to discuss this problem with Dr. D and Dr. Bowman. While the actual "back end" care has always been and still is world class, some of the front end people are very new and don't seem to be "up to par" as far as training and client service. If you don't mind, I would like to use your post in my discussions with her. I think Dr. Bowman would be interested in finding out that some clients are not being treated as well as they should be. I do know that Dr. D is out of town at the moment as the Western Veterinary Conference....but as soon as she gets back, I will get with her on this matter. And if we go up for anything soon, you are more than welcome to come with me and meet Dr. D in person.

Randy

 

[Ivory]

A&E exotics sounds quite good. I can't see anything wrong with their techniques, and as Randy said, their use of Sevo is quite smart.

They sound like the way to go.

 

[Orchid]

ra7751 wrote:

I have no problem with A&E at all. I also like the Sevo they are now using. We have seen that inhalant before and it's great. All three doctors there are world class.

As far as Bowman, I think it's time for me to have a chat about their client services. They have a relatively new practice manager and I have never been overly pleased with the direction of the place since she came in. I get "special treatment" because Dr. D has laid down the law as far as how things go when it comes to our rabbits. Dr. D, and her back up Dr. Hunt, are both world class doctors. We couldn't do all the things we do without their support. I would really like to discuss this problem with Dr. D and Dr. Bowman. While the actual "back end" care has always been and still is world class, some of the front end people are very new and don't seem to be "up to par" as far as training and client service. If you don't mind, I would like to use your post in my discussions with her. I think Dr. Bowman would be interested in finding out that some clients are not being treated as well as they should be. I do know that Dr. D is out of town at the moment as the Western Veterinary Conference....but as soon as she gets back, I will get with her on this matter. And if we go up for anything soon, you are more than welcome to come with me and meet Dr. D in person.

Randy

I have to say I have been very disappointed with Bowman. The day Simon went to A&E I had called Bowman first. They had said Dr. Hunt was on staff that day and they needed to check with her to see if they could see Simon. I ended up making an appt at A&E because I did not hear back from them. I explained how very concerned I was and still. I ended up getting a message later on after we had been to A&E telling me that the Dr. was too busy to see Simon and perhaps they could set up an appt for another time. Mind you that was at about 5pm. When I had called at maybe, 9am? That alone left me feeling...unhappy with them.
Because of how much you like them I had decided to give them a call today. Again I was most disappointed. How can you not be able to give me a quote? The girl who answered the phone said she would need to take my name and number and have the Dr. call me back. When has a vet ever called to give someone a quote? I have never seen that one before. It is usually the staff that does that. I honestly could not understand how not one person could not even give me an idea at what prices I would be looking at. What the procedures are, etc....
"you have not one person there that can tell me anything at all" she said "no". I said "what if I needed something in an emergency, what if something happened and I needed Simon to be seen now" she said they would "try" to get in touch with one of the vets. She actually said try.
If left me with the impression that they don't care, can't be bothered, and don't know what is going on. Not the kind of responses that would leave me feeling good about Simon being seen, treated or neutered there.

I don't mind at all. If this is not the sort of service that is generally received and the Dr.'s are unaware of it, than they should be made aware.
I wouldn't mind coming with to meet the Dr. Let me know..should you be on your way there. Honestly, short of meeting someone that shows some sort of caring and understanding about what they are doing, I wouldn't bring Simon there. Nor, from the way I have been treated thus far tell anyone to go there either. Right now, I feel like A&E is the only place to go for a safe neuter.

 

[SOOOSKA]

Wow that's expensive for a neuter, and it doesn't even include the blood work.

Susan

 

[Orchid]

Yeah I know...I thought it was 450, but that was a spay price.

Dixie trail is about $250 without the spca voucher. I know they accept the spca cat neuter vouchers too which would be $50 for the voucher and then $80 for the neuter.
Makes it hard when you do have to worry about money...

I asked A&E if they accept them and they said no. I wish they would.

 

[naturestee]

Wow, that's some bad client services at Bowman! Last time I called my vet for a quote that wasn't readily listed they had a spare vet tech search through the files of another client who had a similar procedure done. That was for rabbit dental work, and they came back with a price range in maybe 5 minutes.

A&E sounds great from my end, although I would ask if post-surgery antibiotics are really necessary. I prefer not to use them unless needed for illness or a non-surgical wound. Both for the rabbit's sake and because I don't like how resistant bacteria are becoming. That's just my opinion though.

 

[Orchid]

naturestee wrote:

Wow, that's some bad client services at Bowman! Last time I called my vet for a quote that wasn't readily listed they had a spare vet tech search through the files of another client who had a similar procedure done. That was for rabbit dental work, and they came back with a price range in maybe 5 minutes.

A&E sounds great from my end, although I would ask if post-surgery antibiotics are really necessary. I prefer not to use them unless needed for illness or a non-surgical wound. Both for the rabbit's sake and because I don't like how resistant bacteria are becoming. That's just my opinion though.

Honestly I hadn't heard very good things about them...this may be a good reason why. I thought maybe I had heard wrong though seeing as Randy likes them so well. The care may be great, but the human service is lacking. That is one of the reasons I wouldn't send anyone to Falls Village Vet. Doc Green is great, Doc Louis knows her stuff, but the rest of the staff and Dr. Brink...eww. Dr. Brink makes the staff cry...i'm not kidding. Though someone once said to me, any vet is going to be weird and for the most part they were right. Maybe it is people like me...and I am very odd lol, but I don't always do well with people. No matter my intentions I tend to offend and say the wrong thing. I think it is one of the reasons I like animals so well..lol

I would think the anti's were precautionary. I more than likely could opt to not get them. Thank you for pointing this out to me. I will have to talk to them and find out why they like giving them, if they feel is is really needed and than make a decision.

 

[ra7751]

I am going to contact Dr. D when she gets back and see if we can have a discussion with Dr. Bowman about this. It's not the first time I have heard it either....especially since the new practice manager took over.....and we had a major run in quite early in her tenure. I think she was "advised" by some of her staff that it would not be a good idea to "&$*+"me off. This really concerns me not only the way you were treated but I alsorefer otherpeople to them....and I expect people I send there to receive the same courtesy I do. And I suspect that Dr. Bowman and Dr. D will also. We have been going there for quite some time and the standing order for us is that if we need something, make it happen. But if they expect to continue to have a successful practice, some things are going to have to improve.

As far as A&E....when they give you an estimate for a procedure....they cover everything. I totally understand why they do this....I call it a "dumb down". They have to assume that you know absolutely nothing about caring for your rabbit....and there are plenty of people that go there that this applies to. But if you look over the estimate carefully...you will see exactly what I am talking about. And once they learn your skills....it's much easier. I personally like Dr. Stacey Leonatti there. I met her just after she came out of vet school. We have had some interesting conversations about drug therapies....she is very open minded and willing to listen and learn. I have been very impressed by her. Dr. E-R is a world class vet all unto herself...very talented. And Dr. Dan, the owner of the clinic, is known the world over as one of the leading exotics vets anywhere. He has numerous articles written in Exotic DVM magazine and many other professional publications.

Randy

 

[Orchid]

ra7751 wrote:

I am going to contact Dr. D when she gets back and see if we can have a discussion with Dr. Bowman about this. It's not the first time I have heard it either....especially since the new practice manager took over.....and we had a major run in quite early in her tenure. I think she was "advised" by some of her staff that it would not be a good idea to "&$*+"me off. This really concerns me not only the way you were treated but I alsorefer otherpeople to them....and I expect people I send there to receive the same courtesy I do. And I suspect that Dr. Bowman and Dr. D will also. We have been going there for quite some time and the standing order for us is that if we need something, make it happen. But if they expect to continue to have a successful practice, some things are going to have to improve.

As far as A&E....when they give you an estimate for a procedure....they cover everything. I totally understand why they do this....I call it a "dumb down". They have to assume that you know absolutely nothing about caring for your rabbit....and there are plenty of people that go there that this applies to. But if you look over the estimate carefully...you will see exactly what I am talking about. And once they learn your skills....it's much easier. I personally like Dr. Stacey Leonatti there. I met her just after she came out of vet school. We have had some interesting conversations about drug therapies....she is very open minded and willing to listen and learn. I have been very impressed by her. Dr. E-R is a world class vet all unto herself...very talented. And Dr. Dan, the owner of the clinic, is known the world over as one of the leading exotics vets anywhere. He has numerous articles written in Exotic DVM magazine and many other professional publications.

Randy

We saw Dr. Leonatti. I liked her and she seemed to know what she was talking about.

I can understand how you feel. I would not be happy at all if I was saying someone, some place was great and then turn to find the people you sent, were not treated as should have been. Seriously though, I don't know how they expect to get new clients if the human end of things are lacking. Word of mouth is a powerful thing. Can bring you in business or take away from it.

lol...she was advised huh? Are you such a bear than? :biggrin2:

 

[missyscove]

I don't know all that much on the neuter side, my buns were spayed/neutered by the shelters before I got them.
As for the chip, my boy, Timmy was chipped before I adopted him. It was included in the then $25, now $50, adoption fee at the shetler. Our shelter does chips for $25 to members of the public. You might ask your shelter if they do chips.
Honestly, I dought it will ever come in necessary, and I feel like if he did get out, a coyote would probably find him before another person, especially because he is fawn in color so someone who doesn't really know rabbits would probably confuse him for a wild rabbit.
Basically, I don't see any downsides to it, though there have been studies that may link chips to cancer, but I haven't seen any good data, the one I've seen had no control group. Anyway, I don't really see any downsides, but I don't really see that many upsides to it for rabbits either.
Cats and dogs though, I'm completely for it. It really isn't all that painful for the animal, it's just like a vaccine with a bigger needle. In my experience it's more painful for the watching owner than for the animal. I've seen so many animals come in with a collar and no tag, no chip that won't find their families again. I've also seen a number of animals with a chip who go home right away.

 

[Haley]

OMG that is so much for a neuter! My vet charges 70.00. I think the most expensive vet around here charges 150.00 for a neuter.

I would definitely ask about the antibiotics- a bunny shouldnt need it post op. Usually if I hear a vet say they give antibiotics post op it makes me wonder if they have a lot of problems which would require antibiotics. Id also argue over the night before stay. I think it stresses the bunny out being in a new place and is completely unnecessary. Especially if it costs you more.

Id like to hear how others feel, but Imunomfortable withmicrochipping. Ive heard too many stories about problems at the injection site and cancer causing materials in the chip and such. But thats all hearsay so Id like to hear if others have experience with it.

 

[ra7751]

Microchipping....if any animal comes into my house with one....it will be removed as soon as I can get to a vet. There are far too many problems with those things....and even though I don't generally do dogs/cats...I have heard some pretty bad things. While there is no doubt that there is some benefit if an animal is lost....but is it worth the risk? It is a foreign body and who really knows howa rabbit's immune system responds long term? I think we all can agree that rabbitshave different responses in many areas as compared to other species. And as with many issues, there may be some things going on "behind the scenes" on that topic that might not be so good in the long run.

And as usual, Haley is right on with her thoughts. We have only used antibiotics once during a neuter...and that was due to testicular cancer and we were on an aggressive therapy to prep him for basically emergency life saving surgery.....and Dusty is here and very healthy in his retirement. We also bring them home immediately after recovery (and we had done recovery on the way home). Something that adds a great deal to the charges at A&E is the charge for hand feeding Critical Care post-op and other "extended care" charges. They cover everything in their estimate. I have had a $1300 estimate....and by the time I looked it over and eliminated all the excess that I could do at home (and nothing I would consider out of the ordinary) the actual estimate dropped to less then $300. I am sure some of you remember I have mentioned from time to time to get a written estimate and take a close look at it before the procedure and see what you are comfortable with doing at home....many times you will be surprised.

Randy

 

[stargazerLily]

I agree the price does seem a little high. I'm not an expert by any means though. My vet charges around $125 for a neuter and $160 for a spay. She also likes the rabbit to go home same day if at all possible (some owners prefer to leave the rabbit, don't know why). I've rarely ever seen antibiotics go home after a neuter/spay, unless there was pre-existing infection, and in those cases we usually wait until the infection is cleared before doing a elective procedure. You have definatly gotten good advice on here though.

 

[Hazel]

I was reading your post and I was like 305???? And then I remembered you were getting a neuter, not a spay and I was jealous

I know I have to do it, but the 400-450$ each (800-900!!!!!!) is killing me. (That and I'm super worried about the surgery) I just wish it was slightly more affordable without all of the extras that might not really be super necessary. But I feel like a bad bunny mom for saying that... I mean, shouldn't I spend everything I can to make sure my buns get the best possible care? Ahrg.

Btw, Bowman was about the same cost as A&E on high side (the 450) for spay, so it's probably pretty similar to A&E on the high side for neuter if I had to guess.

 

[Orchid]

Hazel wrote:

I was reading your post and I was like 305???? And then I remembered you were getting a neuter, not a spay and I was jealous

I know I have to do it, but the 400-450$ each (800-900!!!!!!) is killing me. (That and I'm super worried about the surgery) I just wish it was slightly more affordable without all of the extras that might not really be super necessary. But I feel like a bad bunny mom for saying that... I mean, shouldn't I spend everything I can to make sure my buns get the best possible care? Ahrg.

Btw, Bowman was about the same cost as A&E on high side (the 450) for spay, so it's probably pretty similar to A&E on the high side for neuter if I had to guess.

Hey...yeah I get jealous when people say 80. I wish....
It is kind of annoying. For all the foo foo...I would rather have a full blood panel.
You shouldn't feel bad. I am actually going to have them print me off a quote and go over it with the vet. I am going to break it down to what is needed and what is not.
You know, I have never seen the night before drop off. Only when an owner could not make it there in the morning. When I go in to drop off a fecal for a recheck I will ask to talk to the doc and go over the it all with her. She knows already I need to be careful about money.

I think...Bowman is lucky to have someone like Randy in their corner..that is about all I think of Bowman.

As to the chip...I had heard the rumor of cancer, but than one day eating apples is great for you and the next they cause cancer. Though I was seeing more and more the chips migrating. People coming in asking us to scan a dog n whatnot and we find the chip in the leg. I was thinking there would not be much point to begin with, but would like to make Simon as safe as I could. In the end I wouldn't have the money I think either way for it. I thank everyone for the input though. I feel better about not doing it, than not being able to do it.