Breeder advice for UTI please

[Wee Wabbits]

Hey guys,

I know it's been a while since I've posted. Been a lot happening. Not sure whether to post this in the breeder section or the infirmary, but here goes. Here's the situation.

I have a litter of rabbits (Mini Lops) that I am supplementing with formula because the mother is refusing to feed them. I think she is drying up but I still get them to drink from her as much as they can. They are 18 days old. I've tried to get them to start in on pellets but they are too hard so been soaking them in formula and feeding them a little of the mush as well. Gave them some formula soaked bread as well. They chew on it a little bit but not much.

I had a couple die because I didn't notice at first that they weren't getting enough milk and have been supplementing the last couple days. I actually provide most of the milk at this point in time, cause the mother will only feed them once a day. She literally growls at them and thrashes and won't sit in the nest no matter what enticing piece of food I put there, or pet her head, etc. Done it many times with many does so I know what I'm doing in that regard.

The ones that have made it so far (5) are hopping around and looking great. The problem is that last night when I got home from work I noticed that one of the babies has a really bad urinary tract infection. Very sudden onset, was fine that morning, or at least I didn't notice and like I've said I've been hand feeding them so I would have noticed it being as inflamed as it was last night. Very swollen, red and bleeding a little bit.

I immediately fed it some sulfamethazine (sulmet) and I'm planning on using Oxytetracycline as well if I can double dose like that, (thinking once a day for each dose, one type in the morning and one type in th evening) I would do a Pen G injection and sulmet instead of the Oxytetracycline but it's so small that I'm afraid an IM shot would cause it harm cause I don't have much experience (I give cows shots not little baby rabbits). Plus the dose would have to be miniscule, and I also worry bout it getting in the bloodstream.

I'm just wondering does anyone have any advice (breeders mainly) on what they do when they have a baby with this? It's very surprising cause the nest box has been pretty clean and never had this before although I know it's common with some breeders. Been breeding for years myself and never had it. It is so swollen that I question if it can relieve itself properly.... But on a rabbit that size a cathater I would think would be near impossible. It did poop last night and in a way that would be harder to pass in my opinion because it's bigger and harder, but at the same time it's not the part that's infected. I don't know if it's able to pee or not but hard to tell in a nest box. Just need advice. It's running around and acting very healthy otherwise.

Ideas?

 

[naturestee]

Sorry about the babies. It's always hard to loose them young. I don't have much experience with them, especially not with UTI's but I do know you can use penicillin. It should always be given subcutaneous, don't know why you'd do IM on a rabbit but I'm guessing that's just how you were taught with the larger livestock. Yes, the dosage is very tiny and you'd need an accurate weight on it, but if done properly it shouldn't do any harm. I had two whole litters on penicillin for syphilis. If you aren't comfortable with it, see if a vet can show you how and maybe preload the syringes for you.

Can you provide a picture or a more thorough description? UTI is usually bladder infections and they don't generally cause visible swelling. I wonder if this is more of a prolapse. Also, genital swelling without scabs, etc. and a healthy-looking mom is how my syphilis babies looked. Just a thought, as it can happen.

Best of luck with this one and the others. At least they had some time nursing from mom. It's so hard to hand raise rabbits!

 

[pamnock]

More commonly, baby bunnies get genital infections rather than actual UTI's. In these cases, topical ointment can provide some relief. It's difficult to recommend a proper treatment without an accurate diagnosis. Penicillin can be risky to use on young bunnies.

Pam

 

[Wee Wabbits]

I read several places to never give rabbits Penn G SQ but also read places that said you can.... So I read the side of the bottle and it said IM only. So I don't really want to go against label directions. Basically I guess the deal is suppose to be that you can get it in the blood if you do it SQ and can cause probs, especially with them being so little. Granted at this stage in the game their muscles are so small that it would be worse to try to put it IM.

It's definately an infection of some sort. Syphilis is an infection so could be possible since the doe isn't mine. My rabbits have antibiotics at each litter as a preventative for coccidosis and other such things so I wouldn't imagine they would be able to carry syphilis but I'm no expert. Probably why I never had a problem. That and I start the antibiotic when their 3 or 4 weeks and they are just starting to eat and drink so usually the infections that would be just starting get wiped out. Then I worm each litter after that.

It's just that one baby that has issues, the rest are perfectly fine in that area. So if it was syphilis wouldn't it affect more then one? I'm wondering if it has to do with the mom grooming them to harsh cause when they were first born she bit the tail off one of the babies and part of the tail off the other, they are fine now but one is missing a tail..... Still cute. Glad it was a tail and not a leg. This litter really has had an interesting start.

I won't be breeding her again anyways as it's a co-breeding and the doe doesn't belong to me as I stated earlier but I'm very familiar with her because she comes out of my line. This is her first litter and her mom had a hard time with her first litter but after that she was a great mom, so with time she'd be fine I'm sure.

Hope this answered your questions. What is the dosage you do and do you use regular Pen G? Where do you inject, neck or butt or somewhere else?

 

[Maureen Las]

Angela (Naturesee) , I believe had one of a litter of foster babies who showed symtoms of syphllis. The litter was treated under the care of an exotic vet andI believe subqutaneous injections were given



The label doesn't mean anything because the product was made for large livestock .

You really don't know what you are treating. Iwould not deal with this on your own with such a young rabbit..too risky

Ithink you should take the bunny to a rabbit experienced vet, get a diagnosis and guidance from a vet . .

 

[pamnock]

Keep in mind that if you suspect the doe had syphilis and has passed it on to the kit, that the buck (which I am assuming is yours) would also be infected.

Dura pen is most commonly used to treat vent disease (1/10 of a cc per every 5 lbs. of body weight).

However, I would consult a vet for proper diagnosis: UTI, syphilis, or a bacterial infection would each require different treatments.

Pam

 

[tonyshuman]

Yes, it is best to get a vet's opinion. You also need an accurate weight of the baby in grams to determine the proper dose.

The thing saying "for IM injection only" is in regard to the way the drug is formulated. From what I can find, there is very little (if any difference) in formulating a drug for Sub-Q or IM absorption (ie the other things with the drug, such as salt, sugar, buffer to make it not "sting" are the same). It is common to use drugs formulated for IM use for sub-q, especially antibiotics. With rabbits, we have to improvise sometimes as few drugs are made for rabbits. In addition, I don't think sub-q means much for large livestock as they are mostly muscle so doing a sub-q injection would probably be quite difficult.

Still, the difference between a UTI and syphillis is great, and to me it also sounds like syphillis, even if the others aren't showing signs (yet). I'm not sure penicillin would be very effective against the bacteria that cause a UTI. Best to be sure you're treating for the right thing.

 

[Wee Wabbits]

I talked with a vet tech today who also is a very experienced rabbit breeder and she gave me some instructions so going to go with what she said. I talked with her bout all of the suggestions you guys have mentioned. Thanks for the help.