Bonding Troubles

[PureElla]

Hi there,

I have been in the bonding process for a couple weeks now. I cannot bond them every since day as I have work now, but I try to make sure they can see eachother at least 4 times a week for 20-60 minutes. For the first two times, I tried stress bonding them inside a laundry basket, which worked okay. After we moved to the bathtub.

But problems started to arise. Toby (Male) started to mount Zayka (Female), but she didn’t care. A couple days later, she started to get fed up and often nipped Toby whenever he would mount her. Zayka started to mount him. He would be fine with it for the first 5-10 seconds but then he would run. She would chase him and try to mount again, but by that time, they would already be nipping eachother. They get separated when they do that, but only for a couple of seconds.

I don’t understand this one thing though. These fights occur 1-3 times each time we bond, but right after Zayka flops down right next to Toby, and he ends up grooming her. They often stare at each other before they fight, then touch noses after they fight.

I just need some help understanding why Zayka would lay down like nothing happened after a fight.

Any tips or suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated!!!

 

[JBun]

It doesn't sound like they are to the point of actual fighting. True fighting is rabbits wanting to really hurt or kill each other. They circle, try to latch on with their teeth, and cause serious damage. So if your rabbits were to this point, bonding would be over and these two rabbits would be unlikely to ever bond. In fact, bonding attempts would need to cease immediately if fighting was occurring.

It sounds more like your rabbits are trying to sort out dominance and hierarchy. And it sounds like she's the one showing she's the boss. Flopping down is her way of saying I'm completely comfortable and I'm going to show you how perfectly fine I am by flopping down. But the good thing is, he's not trying to prove he's more dominant but is going in to groom her after she does this. That's him submitting to being subordinate. Now it doesn't mean it's all sorted out, but it seems to be headed in the right direction of them figuring out who's boss, and the other rabbit giving into this, which is what has to happen.

A little bit of nipping, humping, and chasing is normal in the bonding process and is how they sort out dominance. It's when both rabbits want to be dominant and it starts to escalate into excessive chasing, circling, ears pinned, tail raised, that it can quickly turn into a full out fight with actual biting, not just nips. So you never want it to progress to that point.

I think the problem you might be having now is they may be to the point where the bond needs to be finished. Continuing to do short dates and separating afterwards, may be causing them to back track with any progress that is made in sorting out dominance. So they are essentially forgetting what was accomplished in the last bonding session, so each new session you are having to almost start all over with their progress.

So what may need to happen now is marathon bonding, where they are now kept together strictly supervised until they appear to have sorted everything out and will remain together permanently. Then as things seem to be going well and they are getting along, the supervision can be less and less, until they are to the point where you feel confident leaving them unsupervised.

 

[PureElla]

It doesn't sound like they are to the point of actual fighting. True fighting is rabbits wanting to really hurt or kill each other. They circle, try to latch on with their teeth, and cause serious damage. So if your rabbits were to this point, bonding would be over and these two rabbits would be unlikely to ever bond. In fact, bonding attempts would need to cease immediately if fighting was occurring.

It sounds more like your rabbits are trying to sort out dominance and hierarchy. And it sounds like she's the one showing she's the boss. Flopping down is her way of saying I'm completely comfortable and I'm going to show you how perfectly fine I am by flopping down. But the good thing is, he's not trying to prove he's more dominant but is going in to groom her after she does this. That's him submitting to being subordinate. Now it doesn't mean it's all sorted out, but it seems to be headed in the right direction of them figuring out who's boss, and the other rabbit giving into this, which is what has to happen.

A little bit of nipping, humping, and chasing is normal in the bonding process and is how they sort out dominance. It's when both rabbits want to be dominant and it starts to escalate into excessive chasing, circling, ears pinned, tail raised, that it can quickly turn into a full out fight with actual biting, not just nips. So you never want it to progress to that point.

I think the problem you might be having now is they may be to the point where the bond needs to be finished. Continuing to do short dates and separating afterwards, may be causing them to back track with any progress that is made in sorting out dominance. So they are essentially forgetting what was accomplished in the last bonding session, so each new session you are having to almost start all over with their progress.

So what may need to happen now is marathon bonding, where they are now kept together strictly supervised until they appear to have sorted everything out and will remain together permanently. Then as things seem to be going well and they are getting along, the supervision can be less and less, until they are to the point where you feel confident leaving them unsupervised.

Alright thank you.

As of right now, I put both of them in the bathtub to bond again. What I have noticed is that Toby instantly started to groom Zayka. Hoping that’s a good sign. As soon as that was done, she got on top of him and then they started chasing, biting each other, and pulling fur out. It gets pretty aggressive within seconds so I try my best to stop it.

I have to work from 8-2 during the weekdays, so I cannot have them together 24/7. I can have them together for the other hours, excluding the hours I work and sleep. Will that be enough time?

Toby is a free-roam so he knows every place in the house except the bathroom. Zayka is in the kitchen but it has been cleaned so hopefully there aren’t any smells that belong to Toby. If we were to marathon bond, the only actual place would be the bathroom.

Maybe this bond may not work out, due to the time problems and fighting???

 

[PureElla]

Alright thank you.

As of right now, I put both of them in the bathtub to bond again. What I have noticed is that Toby instantly started to groom Zayka. Hoping that’s a good sign. As soon as that was done, she got on top of him and then they started chasing, biting each other, and pulling fur out. It gets pretty aggressive within seconds so I try my best to stop it.

I have to work from 8-2 during the weekdays, so I cannot have them together 24/7. I can have them together for the other hours, excluding the hours I work and sleep. Will that be enough time?

Toby is a free-roam so he knows every place in the house except the bathroom. Zayka is in the kitchen but it has been cleaned so hopefully there aren’t any smells that belong to Toby. If we were to marathon bond, the only actual place would be the bathroom.

Maybe this bond may not work out, due to the time problems and fighting???

To add onto this, I’ve been doing some reading.

Since Toby is a free roam, I can’t really put their “habitats” next to each other like a lot of sights suggested.

People said that switching litter boxes, toys, etc etc would help them recognize each other in a better way. People also suggested to have short, positive dates, where the rabbits would be together for a couple minutes and enjoy some veggies or treats, and then they would be separated right away. Along with that, people have let them switch habitats, too. Zayka is living in a pen inside the kitchen and Toby is a free roam in my room, sooo I don’t know if that would work but I can try?

I’ve tried stress bonding in a laundry basket on top of the washing machine. I’ve tried the bathtub. Each time they are together a fight occurs and it becomes violent very quickly. Some people said that you shouldn’t interfere unless it is COMPLETELY out of hand or blood is drawn, but I can’t bring myself to do that. (Am I even supposed to do that?)

I am considering ANYTHING. Any ideas would help, except I got a summer job, which means I can’t marathon bond.