Bonding Trouble

[pshepard]

Hi All,

I'm trying to bond my one year told New Zealand Red (around six pounds) to my newly adopted two month old Holland Lop. For two weeks straight I put them together for 30-45 mins once a day in my foyer (which is tiled) or my bathtub. The results are always the same: the little guy is scared to death of the big guy. Bunny, my older rabbit, chases, growls, and bites the hair off of Pickles, my new rabbit. I always separate them and I usually stop the process when things get out of hand. Bunny will, for the most part, do his own thing, hop around, hop over to pickles and sniff him, even lay next to him. But as soon as Pickles hops away Bunny charges him. 90% of the time Pickles sits up perfectly still, which I'm assuming is because he's so scared. He'll thump and whine while he's sitting there. I've tried treats, scare tactics, rubbing both of their heads, all the usual stuff I see on the forum and no luck.

They live inches a part all day. They aren't in the same cage but their cages are back to back so they can smell each other and see each other. They seem to be best buds in their cages separated, but put them together and it's game over. Any ideas of what I can do?

 

[Apebull]

I'm not an expert and have never tried to bond two buns before. But from what I understand you can't really bond a baby bun to an adult bun and being that Pickles is only 2 months old he's still a baby. And is Bunny fixed?

 

[agnesthelion]

Yup, April is right. Both buns need to be fixed. A baby bunny isn't "bondable" really. What happens is the baby will "like" any rabbit meaning he wont fight back or assert dominance. So you will either have an instant connection (which actually isn't a true bond at all because baby doesn't have hormones yet) or a situation like yours will one bunny will assert dominance and then run with it because baby won't level the playing field in any way shape or form.

Even IF you would get to a point where they appear to be getting along, in my opinion it just isn't a true bond. Once baby gets hormones, the once bonded couple can start spontaneous fighting.

So, long answer short, you need to have both buns fixed before you continue this process. You can keep their cages next to each other but I wouldn't do any further dates until fixed and completely healed which if baby is 2 months old this is weeks or months down the road.

Here is my favorite bonding article I share with anyone trying to bond. Best of luck!

http://www.rabbitnetwork.org/articles/bond.shtml

 

[pshepard]

Bunny is fixed and has been fixed for 6+ months now. Pickles isn't fixed yet though. They weren't even 100% sure that he's a he at his last vet visit. We originally thought he was a she by the way. But the vet was 95% sure it's a boy. Pickles just started going crazy a few days ago. He started humping a towel and a few mins later "bonded" with my arm. It's pretty funny to watch. He oinks and circles and then mounts. Obviously I don't let him stay on me but the oinking part is pretty cute. Bunny never talks outside of the occasional growl. Pickles oinks, whines, and makes other weird noises. Anyways, I say that to say that I think his hormones are there now. He's scheduled for a check up next Wed for some sneezing issues that have yet to go away so I'm going to ask about the sex again and see about scheduling his surgery for the next week. He's actually 10-11 weeks old now so 2 months wasn't 100% accurate.

So what I'm hearing is wait until Pickles is altered and healed before trying to bond again. I actually think they both want to be dominate, from what I understand about bunny language. Pickles and Bunny have both bowed their heads to each other looking for the other to clean them. Pickles is pretty demanding but he does it in a non-aggressive way, for now at least. I was thinking the issue was that they both wanted to be dominant and Pickles way of saying so was to stand up to Bunny. I have seen Pickles put his nose up to Bunny's nose once or twice when Bunny makes him mad, which I think I read was a "let's fight" kind of stance.

 

[holtzchick]

Basically, because pickles is not neutered, even if the two bunnies were to hypothetically bond it still wouldn't be a real bond because when his hormones do fully come in there could be a disagree,ent at any moment which could lead to a fight especially two males... Remember males are harder to bond thank m/f pairs.

Now upon altering pickles, I suggest you allow them to live side by side however not introducing them at all for a month or more and when you do start with very small minute sessions many times a day and work your way up depending on how they react to each other.

I've had my bun here for 2 months and they've been living side by side the whole time. I tried to introduce them too early on and tried to lengthen the dates by too much time and they ended up not liking each other so I had to start back at square one. It's been almost 2 months without introductions and they're getting much better to the point where their cages are not separated at all so they can sniff each other through the bars at all times. I think next month I will introduce them.... Bonding is such a pain but I sure hope to god its worth it lol

 

[agnesthelion]

Yeah, two males, one unaltered, that's way to risky to even attempt a bond. They will fight. It's just not worth it to me......

And then on the flip side with the initial confusion on actual sex of the bun.....then you are risking a pregnancy!

So again to repeat whats being said here, get the baby neutered. Whether hormones are "there now" are not, they won't go away without a neuter. So that's probably why they are fighting. It just makes things work better in your favor if they are neutered if you truly want them bonded.

 

[Nancy McClelland]

:yeahthat:

 

[pshepard]

Thanks everyone! I appreciate the advise! I'll let them continue to live side by side and sniff each other through the bars (they seem to like doing that) and we'll try it again a month after his alteration. Thanks again!