Bonding screaming? (EDIT: Squealing?)

[kyaroppi]

I tried searching but couldn't find anything this specific.

So I've had a semi free-roam bunny for about 3 years. I moved into a new apartment a couple of months ago and allow him to freeroam a certain portion of it (Usually where I usually WFH.)

I've had him since he was a baby and got him Neutered at about 1 year old when he started humping everything and I wanted to get him litter trained. He DEFINITELY lost his testicles. He's never really been territorial but he does bow his head down for pets and I oblige, so he is probably "dominate" in personality.

I adopted a 3 year old spayed female from a person who recieved the bunny from a friend that had to be in the hospital. I don't think the newer person knew much about bunnies and kept the bunny in a cage. I took the bunny to the vet a day after I received her, and the vet gave a clean bill of health besides losing hair on the back of her neck. (Don't know the cause, but it's not mite-related. Possibly was picked up by the neck a lot?)

I took her home and keep her in a big dog cage, letting her out every day until she got used to being in a new place. I also didn't let the bunnies interact at all, but switched blankets and switched their poops int he litter boxes. Today was the first day I tried bonding them.

I put them in a small box (rectangular bin) next to each other, and gave treats as they ignored each other. The girl was scared but my original bunny didn't care at all. He'd smell her ears, then come back to me for a treat. He kept ignoring her until she bowed her head toward him.

So he wasn't having any of that and mounted her. I know mounting is fine as long as he isn't mounting her head (He would make it a point to mount her from behind). She submitted, sometimes circling back to mount him, but he's bigger than her (She's a netherland dwarf and he's a mixed holland lop.) and would always win.

The thing is, she makes a noise when he's winning which makes me afraid she's in pain. It's not growling, and I don't know how bunny screaming really sounds, but it scared me, so I separated them and stopped the bonding session. (EDIT: Not screaming, but like squealing)

I don't know if her neck hurts her, or if she's just frustrated that she's losing the dominance and it's okay to continue.

She nipped once or twice but my boy didn't mind and just kept trying to mount. She's try circling back to mount him but to no avail, and then the "screaming" (EDIT Squealing?) started again.

I was just wondering if this is okay? The vet didn't say anything about her neck but it's pretty bald and I'm just afraid if she's in pain. I don't want to force her into something that's hurting her and I don't know if this is actual screaming in fright or just frustration that's ok.

Just curious on others' opinions.

Thank you!! (I also hope I'm not breaking any forum rules!!)

 

[JBun]

Bunny screaming is unmistakeable. It's loud and piercing.

Are you absolutely certain she's spayed? An unspayed doe may vocalize more when there's a potential 'mate' trying to hump her(as opposed to a spayed doe).

If you could post a short video of it happening, that might help in identifying her behavior.

 

[kyaroppi]

Bunny screaming is unmistakeable. It's loud and piercing.

Are you absolutely certain she's spayed? An unspayed doe may vocalize more when there's a potential 'mate' trying to hump her(as opposed to a spayed doe).

If you could post a short video of it happening, that might help in identifying her behavior.

Thanks for your reply!
I did a little bit more research and it's exactly like a whimper. I don't want to stress her out too much so I stopped the bonding of course.

The previous owner gave me the information of the vet their friend had her spayed at. I asked the vet I took her to for the check up if there was a way to be certain if she's spayed and he tried checking for a scar, but he couldn't be sure unless we shaved her, so the best thing to do is to call the vet that she was spayed at to make sure she was spayed, so I'm pretty sure she's spayed. She's not great at using the toilet/sometimes her poop smells like the marking-poop (Onion-y smell), so that's why I was concerned, but the previous owner gave me all the information (And I paid the previous owner the cost of the spay... ) so I'm hoping that it's just a "I'm not used to other rabbits especially ones that try to dominate me", but I'll call the vet she was spayed and make sure.

(I'm in Japan so anything like "you should have gotten this documentation" etc. might be different in the US/other countries)

I'll take a video of the next time I try bonding! I'm sure it's more stressful on the newer female because it's still a newer home than it is for my original boy, but she's been so friendly/running around/etc that I thought it was good timing to maybe slowly start introducing each other, especially for the fact that I don't want to keep her in a cage/want both to free-roam the apartment. It's been about 2 weeks....so maybe it's still a bit early?

 

[JBun]

We don't necessarily have documentation either. Just getting the name of the vet that did it and checking with them, getting from a reputable rescue, or take the persons word for it. If you aren't able to find out from the vet that supposedly spayed her and want to find out for sure, your vet could maybe do an ultrasound to check.

And she may really be spayed and it may just be the bonding is making her nervous. You might just need to take more time letting her settle in and get used to your boy bun being around.

If you still want to continue with some bonding right now, I would suggest doing really short sessions, where you place them side by side and you give both head rubs at the same time. This tends to be relaxing for them and non threatening, so may help her start to feel more comfortable with your boy bun being near her.

 

[kyaroppi]

We don't necessarily have documentation either. Just getting the name of the vet that did it and checking with them, getting from a reputable rescue, or take the persons word for it. If you aren't able to find out from the vet that supposedly spayed her and want to find out for sure, your vet could maybe do an ultrasound to check.

And she may really be spayed and it may just be the bonding is making her nervous. You might just need to take more time letting her settle in and get used to your boy bun being around.

If you still want to continue with some bonding right now, I would suggest doing really short sessions, where you place them side by side and you give both head rubs at the same time. This tends to be relaxing for them and non threatening, so may help her start to feel more comfortable with your boy bun being near her.

Thank you so so much!!

Yeah, I called the vet and need the full name of the original owner, so I asked the girl I got the new bun from and I'm waiting for the response. I figure if I don't get a response I can get an Xray (or as you said, ultrasound) to make sure she's spayed. If she isn't I want to make sure to get her spayed because of the cancer risk, along with the toilet/marking problems (and of course, bonding)

After doing a little more research and finding out it was whimpering, I figured she was annoying/unpleased that she "lost" the dominance "fight" (She bowed her head a couple times to my boy, and he just ignored her and then started the mounting. She responded with circling back to try and mount him, but then he did the same and she "gave up" and just whimpered...)

I just don't want to be too "in-the-middle" and separating them at the wrong time.

I took a video of me trying to bond them, and her whimpering. I separated them because she was starting to bite him/pulled a chunk of fur out of him (I think...but he's shedding like crazy so he seems fine...he doesn't seemed too fazed by it)

If I'm doing anything wrong, please don't berate me too much! I'm still trying to learn/do my best for my buns so constructive criticism it welcomed!

I pulled them apart/put her back in her pen/him back in his living space right after this. I may have interfered when I wasn't supposed to but her whimpering scares me so I'm hoping to just do this like 5 minutes a day. Before this I separated them with a gate and they seemed to be cool with each other, both eating treats and wondering where they were. The new girl didn't seem scared at all and my boy didn't give a care but once I took the separation gate away and the mounting started, BAM.

Is he too aggressive? Is there something else I should be doing? Should I wait a little bit more before trying to bond?

Any advice is welcome!

 

[Lionhead owner]

I am fast realising that this bonding stuff is really really hard. I tried to get 2 half sisters to bond and it didn’t go well. It seems like such a shame when you see them snuggling next to a pal. Also the various websites often give different advice. I think you posting videos and trying to get advice because you love your rabbits is fantastic. Very best of luck.

 

[JBun]

I think she's getting scared. For now I would stop it progressing to humping. I would encourage them laying next to each other while you pet them. I would also change where you're bonding. That space is just too small to progress any further with the bonding, and may be creating part of the problem. Your little doe may be feeling too trapped in such a small space. I would suggest a 3x3 ft pen, and put some hay in there for them to munch on. You could also try a litter box, but only if neither rabbit gets territorial over it. If they do, then remove the box for now.

Once you have them in this new bonding pen and she seems more relaxed, then you can gradually allow some humping, as this is how they sort out their dominance. But you don't want it to progress into excessive humping, or excessive chasing or nipping. A little bit is normal, but if it goes past that I would intervene. Also intervene right away if circling starts up. To intervene, use a hand that is protected with a thick glove, or something like a broom(done carefully as to not cause injury). But if she is still whimpering, I would stop the humping for now and scoot them next to each other and pet them. This will help her learn to feel relaxed with your boy bun next to her.

It may even be a good idea to try a larger pen(or small area/room) with you sitting in there with them to pet and supervise. This is just an intial tactic to help her feel safe. Once you feel she's adjusted well, then you can go back to a 3x3 pen with you on the outside supervising.

Their initial response to one another actually seems pretty good, so once your doe can get past her nervousness, I think the bonding could progress fairly well. Sometimes you have to try different things when something doesn't seem to be progressing right, or doesn't feel right to you. The most important thing is to know and understand the signs of escalating aggression, as those are the signs you need to know to quickly intervene when you see it starting to happen. Some of that aggressive behavior is described well in this thread.

https://www.rabbitsonline.net/threads/when-to-intervene-rabbit-bonding.104770/