blood in the nest.

[somebody]

My two rabbits have got at each other a few times. Although, lately, their encounters have not been quite as nice (or atleast, my doe wanted nothing to do with my buck..) Neither are neutered/spayed, because I don't quite have the $300 to cover it right now



A few days ago my doe begun to construct a nest. I thought nothing of it, she had faked before. But tonight she upgraded that nest with quite a bit of her fur, (this, has also happened).



I've watched her closely and there is blood in her nest, not much.. but, still.. blood. I assume this is probably normal for birthing does (is it?)



The catch is, she doesn't look THAT big, how big to pregnant does get? The blood has been there for at least 20 minutes now, still no babies. Is this bad? I'm quite sure I should be calling a vet.. I just want to know if everything is going VERY bad. (If it matters, she is a holland lop.)



She's been spending alot of time in her little made nest and being quite hostile with my buck (through the bars) as well as any intruding hands.



Another thought of mine, do does have periods?



Thank for anyone who helps me, I'm kinda stressing right now.

 

[somebody]

There are FOUR-ish baabies in her nest.... but their not moving.. how much should I expect babies to move??

 

[somebody]

Ok. All four of her babies are dead.



:rip:

 

[RAL Rabbitry]

Sorry to hear about your babies.

It sounds like your doe had a hard time. There should have been no blood

in her nest before she had the babies. You may see a small amount of blood

after she kindled but not before.

How old is your doe? A doe shouldn't be bred for the first time after they are

a year old.

Does do not go into heat or have a period. They ovulate after the buck

breeds her.

Be warned that she can get pregnant again the day that she kindles.

Roger

 

[msfancy]

She is a little over a year. I think the blood may have started after she birth the first baby, because there was one that I didn't see until we went to remove them.

And, yeah, I didn't think they had periods, it was my moms thought, lol, I guess I was just kinda hoping that I was thinking wrong.

And the two aren't ever in the same cage. A while ago they happened to break free :X and, well, what they did is no secret.

It really didn't seem like she was having a hard time, I was watching her closely. She was quite calm, actually, throughout the whole ordeal.

Another thing I noticed was they seemed quite skinny compaired to healthy looking newborns, or maybe I'm wrong.Wr never knew she was pregnant because she really didn't look MUCH bigger than normal. I suppose you should probably feed a prgnant rabbit more than usual, we never did that (being completely oblivios and all).

Should you feed pregnant rabbits more? Could this have been a factor in the babies' deaths? And, one last question, do rabbits lose their first litters often, or more often then the second or third?

 

[TinysMom]

I don't think that the babies were born dead because she didn't get more food during her pregnancy. Sometimes I give a bit mroe food if I can tell a doe is pregnant with LOTS of babies...but she should have been fine.

Holland lops can be hard to have babies from due to the head shape and holland lop does should be younger than a year old when they are bred (like 9 months I think?).

I would definitely keep your rabbits apart and get her spayed so this doesn't happen again. I'm a bit concerned about the blood - not sure if it was the placenta or not. Does will normally eat the placenta though.

Please keep an eye on her and if she seems like she's not eating or drinking right or something - take her into the vet. With hollands (and other breeds) it is possible to have a retained kit and that could lead to infection, etc.

Peg

 

[msfancy]

Well, she was eating around the time of birth, before and after. So, thats good.

 

[Flashy]

Well that's thoroughly confused me, lol, two different names, but that's irrelevent.

My tiny bunny carried a litter of 7 babies and she did not look much bigger. Rabbits, being prey animals, generally don't show too much, but obviously they can show, or it is a subtle difference.

The babies, when they are born, can look very scrawny, and they tend to stay that way until they get their first feed (after about 24-36 hours) and look like they have swallowed a pingpong ball.

Often mothers lose their first litter because they don't know how to look after it, but yes, watch carefully to see if she is lethargic or straining or anything because that can be a sign of problems, and straight to the vet at that point.

Maybe you could get the buck neutered because that's the cheaper one and if you get one done then you know that if they do escape again, at least you won't have any babies.

 

[pamnock]

I'd certainly be very careful to keep the buck separate from the doe from now on. Holland Lops can be prone to birthing problems and stuck kits. Vet bills in these situations could run into far more money than just spaying the doe in the first place.

Pam

 

[msfancy]

The first poster was my brother, the second... me.. sorry about the confusion.



And, actually, I've talked it over with mom and I think Pippin will be the first to face the knife.

 

[gentle giants]

Is there only a single layer of wire between the cages? If they are arguing, it might be a good idea if you put a second layer of wire, with a slight gap between. They can still bite each other and pull hair with only a single layer.

Does don't generally "show" when they are pregnant, as I think someone already said. For a prey animal, to get big and waddling like a human does would make them a target for predators. And no, not having extra feed shouldn't have had that much effect on the babies. I haven't had Holland Lops, but it's not uncommon for a doe to lose her first litter, or at least part of it.

 

[msfancy]

There is a single layer. They aren't really 'fighting'. Rosie just grunts a bit, while Pippin just stands there and tries to lick her (he's in love, and whipped ). She has pulled hair before, but she has stopped that. Actually, sometimes she'll jump over to where he's standing waiting on her and she'll bow, expecting immediate doting from her boy-friend :biggrin2:I think she was just testing with his through this pregnancy, before, she was willing to be near him (she is really keen to be a mom).



I've talked to Pippin's breeder, we are pretty sure they were either stillborn (but we think that she had no real big problem pushing them out. And since she IS an older doe, her pelvic bones could have been closing up, or something along those lines, causing problems birthing. But if this happened, the result might have been oddly long babies, and they were not oddly long... or so the breeder says). Or they died quickly of cold (she had no nest box because we just thought she was faking it, I did give her a towel and hay, and some tissue, but she ate the hay and only really made a nest out of the towel, then a few minutes before she kindled she pulled SOME fur, definitly not enought. Oddly, she pulled A LOT of fur after we removed the babies).

 

[Flashy]

Sandy did that with our litter, pulled a bit out before, but then loads after to cover them up and keep them warm, so presumably, that's fairly standard. your doe might just not have realised that her babies we dead/gone.

 

[msfancy]

Yeah, thats true to. She hasn't been really, looking for them though. I'm not sure if her milk has come yet. And even when we went to take them away, she didn't attack any ofus, or fuss at all.

 

[naturestee]

Just so you know, rabbits can mate through wire cage walls when they really want to. It would be a good idea to keep a double wall or a solid wall between them until they are spayed/neutered.

 

[BlueGiants]

msfancy wrote:

Yeah, thats true to. She hasn't been really, looking for them though. I'm not sure if her milk has come yet. And even when we went to take them away, she didn't attack any ofus, or fuss at all.

I'm sorry your babies didn't make... Most (not all!, LOL!) of my does are very accepting of my hand in the nest. I would expect her to let you take them out. And most of my does will ignore the litter until it's time to nurse (maybe twice a day, for 5 minutes at a time.) They don't treat their babies like dogs and cats do.

Some first time Does don't get "maternal" right away. It may take a couple of hours (or as long as a day). Since the babies didn't make it, her milk wil dry up in a few days. But she will be ready to breed again in a day or two.

 

[msfancy]

Lol, well, Rosie is VERY territorial (especially about her cage), and she just generally likes to be left alone, so I fully expected a full frontal attack, lol.



And I didn't know about the breding through the wire thing, lol, but I guess a rabbits world revolves around mating, so they have their tricks... thank you for that, though. I actually have a blanked seperating them for most of the time, but I'll look into putting something there.