Bloat?

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Alison237

Alison237

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Oct 25, 2009
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Location
London, , United Kingdom
I am looking for some urgent advice so I hope someone can help, I am in the UK.

My 4 year old, neutered male, dwarf lop was ok Friday, but yesterday I noticed some runny poos and him bunched up in the corner of his litter tray.

His belly was solid and I suspected GI, he is on a daily treatment of Metacam for an ear problem which I gave him along with some Zantac, he seemed to perk up a little bit and wanted to cuddle with my other two buns, but when I felt him again he still was solid.

We didn't want to take him to the Vet's, unlike my other two who just don't like the vet, he is terrified to be out of his familiar area, but we decided we had no choice and he was admitted last night.

He has passed some poo and he is eating (my husband spoke to the vet some I am not sure if he is eating voluntarily), but he has had an X-ray which has shown a large bubble.

The vet has said that simethicone is not suitable and whilst he is eating and pooing he wants to just keep him on a pain killer (not Metacam) and hope that the bubble will disperse.

I am very nervous about this, I don't want him to go into any shock, I want the bubble gone, is there any advice anyone can give for me to pass on to my vet.
 
I hope someone with more knowledge steps in (I am also at work so can't search) but stronger pain med sounds good. I will post to mods to see if someone can help.
 
If you could answer this would help a lot.


- Location

- Description (Breed, color., weight)

- Age

- spayed/neutered?

- Notes on Fecal and Urinary Output
     - are the bunny's poops and pees normal? 
     - When did they last use their litterbox? 
     - Any unusual behavior?

- Medical History -- has s/he been to the vet or been sick before? 

- Diet - what does your bunny eat?
     - when and what did s/he eat last?

- movement - any unusual movements?  Is s/he hopping normally?

- are there any plants, chocolate or other substances within reach?  

- has the rabbit been outdoors?
 
We have just had a call from the vet who is taking over from the night shift, she has told us that he is on an antibiotic (just in case it is bacterial), Zantac, to get the gut moving and pain relief.

He has been syringe fed, he has access to hay but hasn't shown much interest. He has however been tearing newspaper and done two little poos, hopefully the tearing means he is a bit active and the poos.... well two is better than none.

It seems that as there is pooing they want him to pass the gas himself, but I am worried that in the time this takes he could rapidly deteriorate, but the other option of putting a tube down his throat is dangerous too, I just don't know what to do or say, but I know how vital these early hours are.

They have told me I can go and see him at 2pm, hopefully I will be able to see how he is and what is best.... hopefully.
 
Hi Alison;

I'm not an infirmary mod, but here is a link to our Library articles about Bloat:
http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=11931&forum_id=10

This is a particularly good article, perhaps of use to your vet if they are not familiar with bloat in rabbits:
http://www.bunnylu.org/bloat.html

The feeding tube is standard protocol, from what I can see in the above article. Yes, stressful, but bloat is one nasty killer... Buns typically have a low survival rate battling bloat without vet assistance... thank goodness you've already got a great vet on your team!
Will be thinking of you and your little one today :purplepansy:
 
I am sorry, I didn't see the post asking for more info, it looks like I did another post at nearly the same time.

Location - London, England

Description - Dwarf Lop, Brown, 2.2kg

Age - He is a rescue bunny so this may not be accurate, I was told he was born Nov 2005, I have had him since March 2008.

Neutered - Yes, Feb 2008

Notes on Fecal and Urinary Output - He has done a few small poos in the vets and was pooing and weeing a little yesterday, all have been very squidgy, some were his 'special poos' which he did not eat.

He chose to sit permanently in his litter tray when he was at home and was crunched up with a bloated belly.

Medical History -- has he been to the vet or been sick before - He went to the vets for a similar thing this time last year, I don't recall his belly being bloated, he just refused to eat and didn't poo for two days, but pooed an hour after retuning home from his 48 hour stay in the vets.

He has a narrow ear canal which he is receiving two doses of 0.4ml of Metacam per day to alleviate the pain, any other medication did not work.

He did have a blocked tear duct last year which was flushed out and has been fine since.

Both of his vaccinations are up to date and he was recently wormed (Panacur).

Diet - His normal diet is a teaspoon of Science Select Pellets in the afternoon and half a cup of veg (eg. broccoli, greens, parsley, radish leaves and a tiny piece of carrot) in the evening, unlimited Oxbow hay and about an hour to two hours of exercise on the grass per day.

We aim to the healthier side of treats, like Natural's Nature's Salad and Oxbow's Pineapple and Papaya tablets for example.

He ate his dinner as usual in the friday night and seemed fine, by Saturday afternoon he wasn't, he did take a Pineapple tablet and two pellets of of my husband, but refused the veg. The vet's have tried him with parsley but he wasn't interested in that or the hay, they have been feeding him Critical Care via syringe since last night.

Movement - Very little yesterday, I have been told that he is tearing up newspaper in the vet's and has been moving around a bit.

Are there any plants, chocolate or other substances within reach - No, they live in the shed and we do not have plants in the garden, there are obviously a few weeds but nothing that I can see which is new and the other two buns are fine. We do not have children who would feed them something naughty either.

Has the rabbit been outdoors - He went out in our garden with my other two buns on friday late afternoon as usual, everything seemed normal.
 
We have been to see him, it was lovely to see him but at the same time heartbreaking, as soon as he see me he snuggled up to me as if to say 'are you going to take me home?' He did this again when we he could feel we were leaving.

So obviously we decided to leave him there, we had toyed with the idea that he would be happier at home, but the vet pointed out that he wont be happy anyway if he is in pain.

His medication is far to complex for us to administer at this point, the main issue is the strong pain killer that has to be injected, we were told that even if we could do this ourselves, they would not let us take it.

He is also on a fluid injection, Baytrill injection (which I know can also be given orally) Zantac syrup, Fibreplex and Critical Care.

Our other option would be to take him up there three times a day for the pain killer injection and the fluids, but apart from that not really being an option that they want to do, taking him there three times a day may upset him more.

He does seem a lot more comfortable, he wasn't fidgeting about or crunched up and his belly does feel a bit smaller, we were told that he has done a few more poos.

We were shown the X-ray and you can see the large mass of gas, but they said that they can not see a blockage.

I have just thought though, we gave them a hay tunnel to play with the night before he was ill, they have all had these many times before and we have never had a problem, but is it possible the he has ingested cardboard and this has caused the problem which can't be seen on the X-ray? I think I may be clutching at straws for a reason as many rabbits chew on newspapers ect.

http://www.petsathome.com/find/keywo...duct-is-V00648

I am going to call them later to check on his progress and will be going back again tomorrow. I think we need to take it one day at a time, I am hoping to see some vast improvement in tomorrows X-ray, if not we are going to have to re access the situation.

My mum mentioned whether there is a way of going in through the anus to get the air out rather than down the throat, or some type of enema, no one has said this is an option, but if anyone knows anything about this I would appreciate any advise.
 
My question would be why in the world would you give a rabbit Zantac? That is an acid reducer. The beneficial bacteria in the GI needs an acidic climate in which to flourish. The normal pH in a rabbit GI is 1-2. If the pH changes, that can destroy the beneficial bacteria and cause a condition that is known by many names....cecal dysbiosis, bacterial enteritis, and many others. The idea is to keep an acidic GI. If youradically change the pH by an acid reducer, you get a major GI event....as you are seeing. Did a vet do this? If so, is there a good reason why? AndI am thinking by "bubble" you mean gas....if so, simethicone. And that leads me to question the knowledge of your vet if he/she says simethicone is inappropriate. Simethicone is a necessity. It is basically an inert "drug". Doesn't get absorbed into the body....it only changes the surface tension of the gas bubbles. I suspect you will be seeing a greenish or yellowing mucus with the fecal material soon. That is an indication of an irritant in the GI.....most likely a pathenogenic bacteria that would most likely be Clostridium.

Which leads me to wonder what is going on with the ear. Baytril is not usually up to the job these days. Most of the top vets here in the US are abandoing Baytril...even for dogs.

If you are receiving the type of advice you are describing from a vet, I would quickly seek a second opinion.

Randy
 
Randy, I have heard of giving Zantac with many NSAIDs in rabbits to reduce any stomach distress caused by those drugs. I'm not sure if it's a good idea or not, it's just a possible reason.

I like simethicone, heat, and vibration will help. Stronger pain meds may be good, but gas meds are very good for this type of thing. I'd offer him a heat source like a pop bottle full of hot water, a sock full of dry rice microwaved for a few minutes, etc. Also some gentle tummy massages will help--you can use an electric toothbrush for this too. Another good remedy is putting them on top of the washing machine during a spine cycle, unless it's too loud.
 
Just a side note of caution:

VIP to ensure no blockage is present (have x-rays done) before choosing course of treatment.

Important: Gastric Dilation (Volvulus) or severe 'bloat' is not the same as a gas episode. With bloat, the stomach becomes extremely hard and grossly distended which can cause the blood supply to be cut off from the stomach or intestine. Bloat can quickly lead to shock and death. If you suspect bloat, do not massage the rabbit's abdomen, which could make the situation worse. Seek immediate veterinarian attention.

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=11931&forum_id=10
 
Oh ok. I haven't run across a real case of bloat before, just gas. I would expect his stomach to look much bigger if it is actually bloat and not just gas.
 
Thank you everyone, it is really hard to know what to do when it is not your field of expertise.

I have been told that smithecone is not registered in the UK and vets do not have it, but all the internet research I have done has said that even if they did, it would not have been suitable because it would be used to disperse the frothy gas into larger bubbles so it could be passed easier, as the gas inside Dexter was already a large bubble it wouldn't have made any difference.

It seems that there is a lot of difference with medication from country to country, Zantac seems quite standard in the UK, I have used three different vets, all of which agree for it to be used for this type of thing, but I have taken on board your comments Randy and I will definitely be talking to vet again about the acid and Ph to see what he says.

But hopefully we are over the worst, he had an X-ray yesterday which showed a large bubble, but this morning X-ray showed that it had significantly reduced, the vet was happy to send him home due to him being a lot happier and more active, which he has been.

He is eating, pooping and running about, we can see that our old Dexter feeling better, he seems a lot brighter and not uncomfortable, this may change when his pain killer wears off, but we are looking vigilantly for any changes.

Thank you everyone for all of your help, it has been a hard couple of days and I have read all of the posts and links which have really helped, thank you all again.
 
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