Bladder Stones

[tunneyfan]

I wanted to know if anyone has gone through the same situation as I have with my bunny. My male bunny had 3 large bladder stones removed this past September. There was nothing in his diet that should have caused this. The vet said it is probably due to his genetics and the stones my return. It's been just over a month since his surgery to remove the stones and this past week I have noticed chalky type residue in his urine. The vet that did the surgery said this is normal but I'm still concerned. I have an appointment with another vet now who said I should bring him in to be checked.

Has anyone had a rabbit who developed bladder stones, had them removed, and then had them return (or sludge)? If so, did it start with a white substance ( i assume calcium) in the bunny's urine?

Any suggestions on food to reduce calcium. I have my bunnies on a oat hay blend along with orchard grass hay.

 

[Maureen Las]

Chalky residue may just be calcium excreted in the urine, however, due to your bun's historyI understand your concern. Bladder stone and sludge can be a chronic problem.

Amy 27 is our resident expert on this condition due to dealing with it with her rabbit Chase.

here is some info to start you out

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=58462&forum_id=16&highlight=Amy+27

 

[Nancy McClelland]

Charlene had to have a large stone removed when she first came to us. The vet said to keep her away from veggies that are high in Calcium.

 

[Amy27]

I would get your rabbit checked again if you are concerned. My rabbit had 2 stones removed in 3 months. I wish I had seem some symptoms before both stones got so big. After the second stone was removed, within 10 days when she had her stitches removed, sludge had started to form. This has been a 2 year battle for me and my bunny Chase. I constantly watch now.

My vet is not concerned when I see a lot of calcium in the urine. She states that at least that means it is coming out and not staying in. However, during this time my vet was doing x-rays every month so we knew what was going on in the bladder in regard to build up.

I really don't know how to explain what I think about bladder stones and sludge in regard to the diet. My rabbit wasn't even on pellets when she got her stones though she is on pellets now. However, my rabbit has been sludge free and then I started feeding dandilion which is high in calcium. The sludge came back. I don't feed veggies or treats that are high in calcium. However, my bunny still gets calcium, I just stay away from the stuff that has a lot of calcium in it. I read something a member her sent me that said something like, a rabbit will only urinate so much. Only so much calcium will come out when the rabbit urinates. If there is too much calcium to come out due to diet in what the rabbit urinates, it will build up. That made sense to me. I do still think it is more then diet.

I would keep a close eye on your bunny. The more water he drinks, the more he will urinate and hopefully keep his bladder flushed. What are you currently feeding besides the hay you listed?

 

[tunneyfan]

I read your previous post about everything your bunny Chase went through. I completely understand everything you had to deal with. My bunny showed no signs of any problems until he had 3 huge stones in his bladder. Between finding the stones in an x-ray and the scheduled surgery one stone moved into his urethra and caused him so much pain. I have never heard a rabbit scream until then. It was 2am and trying to find a vet hospital open 24 hours with a rabbit vet isn't possible. Long story short, the next morning my bunny had his surgery but only 2 stones were removed. My vet couldn't reach the stone in his urethra so it was just a waiting game hoping it will pass. Needless to say I was a mess. Everyone scared me that he wouldn't make it. Thank god the stone passed and the surgery went well. Now I'm paranoid that this will happen again.

I only have him on oat and orchard grass hay. I'm afraid the veggies (leafy lettuce and italian parsley) may have contributed to the stones. When I first adopted my bunny he diets consisted mostly of hay and occasional veggies. I started giving him veggies everyday this past year and he developed the stone. Otherwise his diet was perfect.

It's been about 6 weeks since his surgery and he seems to be doing well. I've just notice some white stuff in his urine. It's not thick so I don't think it's sludge. Does anyone have a picture of what sludge looks like? My primary vet said it's normal and I should worry only if his behavior changes. But again, he showed no signs the first time. I made an appointment with a vet someone recommended who is supposed to be great with bunnies. I'm afraid to stress him out by taking him in to see her though. I wish I could see into the future so I know how everything will turn out.

I hope both our bunnies will continue to be sludge and stone free.

 

[Maureen Las]

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Uro_gen_diseases/generalities/Sludge.htm

maybe you read this ..not sure



http://www.ontariorabbits.org/health/healthinfo4.htm

 

[tunneyfan]

Thank you for that link. What my bunny has now looks like the first picture, which according to the article is normal.

 

[Nancy McClelland]

Our bunnies get fresh veggies twice a day. The stuff we had to avoid we're the high calcium ones. Kale, spinach and alfalfa sprouts we're out. I got a list of stuff from the vet and also have seen acceptable vegetables listed here, someplace. Haven't had anymore problems with stones or sludge.

 

[tunneyfan]

Which veggies do you fee? I used to give my bunnies green or red leaf lettuce, italian parsley and cilantro.

 

[tonyshuman]

Those are good veggies, although parsley is a bit high in calcium. I wouldn't change the diet too much, maybe give parsley half as much. Do they get pellets? It seems to be important that the bunnies get some vitamin D to help with calcium balance in the body. It's also important that they get lots of water if stones are an issue. You can soak the veggies in water for 5-15 min prior to giving them--they pick up extra water and thus the bunnies get more water in them as well.

Rabbit urine has a wide variety of what is considered "normal"

http://www.greendale.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=128&Itemid=34

 

[Amy27]

Wow, Claire the different colors of urine you posted is really cool. I have never seen that before.

Like Larry, I feed my buns veggies twice I day. I feed cilantro, endive and red leaf. Here is some information on calcium content of veggies
Reference

1. Summary of Calcium in Rabbits, John E. Harkness (Rabbit Health News, 1994: Vol.11, p.7)

Calcium Content of Raw Vegetables 6 mg Peppers, sweet
10 mg Alfalfa sprouts
15 mg Pumpkin leaves
16 mg Coriander (cilantro)
18 mg Chard, Swiss
19 mg Radish seed sprouts
20 mg Lettuce, Romaine (per 100g serving)
20 mg Squash, zucchini
21 mg Jerusalem artichoke
24 mg Pumpkin
26 mg Endive
26 mg Squash, summer
28 mg Asparagus
28 mg Cauliflower
28 mg Purslane
28 mg Radishes
30 mg Carrots
30 mg Egglant
32 mg Arugula
32 mg Cabbage
32 mg New Zealand spinach
34 mg Kohlrabi
38 mg Lettuce, looseleaf
39 mg Turnips
40 mg Cress, garden
40 mg Watercress
42 mg Broccoli
44 mg Celery
46 mg Beet greens
56 mg Spinach
58 mg Mustard greens
59 mg Dock
62 mg Peas, edible pod
65 mg Rutabagas
68 mg Celeriac
74 mg Chinese cabbage
78 mg Parsley
82 mg Borage
82 mg Okra
94 mg Kale
103 mg Dandelion greens
105 mg Turnip greens
137 mg Kale, Scotch
180 mg Chicory greens
218 mg Collards
309 mg Lambsquarter
315 mg Mustard spinach
per 1 cup serving, unless otherwise noted

Taken from: http://www.rabbit.org/journal/3-5/calcium.html
The website also has good information on how much calcium a rabbit needs daily.

 

[haven711]

Don't feed Alfalfa hay too long. Stop it when a bunny is 6 mo old and switch to Timothy right away. I fed mine Alfalfa hay way too long and the bladder was filled with sand. That was terrible to see. A local vet who doen't know anything said Alfalfa hay is okay to feed and my bunny liked it much, so I just fed it. It was a big mistake.