Baby Holland Lop Slow To Eat Cecals

[pshepard]

Hey All!

I just purchased my second rabbit a few weeks ago, a cute little Holland Lop. His name is Pickles.

Pickles is having a variety of strange issues, one being that he's super slow to eat his cecals and has been since day one which was over two weeks ago now. My other rabbit doesn't usually leave his cecals around. I see him bend over and eat them straight from...well you know. But Pickles drops his and leaves them for hours. He ends up eating all of them which I guess it good but he leaves them where he lays so they smear all over the place. He smells horrible, and the room he stays in smells horrible. Some days I have to just scrape it all up b/c of the smell but I'm not sure if that's the best thing to do since he needs to eat those.

He's getting Oxbow Pellets for babies since he's only 10 weeks old. He's also getting unlimited timothy hay and water. He's not getting any veggies right now. He's eating just fine. I'm not sure what's wrong with him, or if anything is wrong with him. I found loads of info about rabbits not eating their cecals but I haven't found anything about rabbits dropping them off for hours and slowly eating them. It's really the whole smell and mess thing that's making this unpleasant for me. Any suggestions?

 

[whitelop]

Babies have a really short attention span so sometimes it takes them a while to eat them or they completely forget about them. Its pretty normal for them to not eat them, they get better as they get older.

But if there are that many cecals, are you sure they are actually cecals and not soft poops?
How many pellets are you feeding him a day? They suggest unlimited pellets, but sometimes that too many pellets for babies. If you are feeding unlimited, maybe try to cut back the pellets a little bit, until you notice less cecals. Sometimes if they have a too rich diet in pellets they won't eat their cecals.

I have a 16 week old(roughly) baby, I sometimes see cecals but its rare now. I saw them more when she was younger, but she has gotten better over the weeks. So hopefully your baby will get better too!
But I think its just a baby thing to not eat them.

 

[tonyshuman]

It is a baby thing, and an unneutered thing, but it could also be a diet thing. I know he's at the age that they're supposed to have unlimited pellets, but you might want to reduce them. Measure out a cup or two and leave it out all day, then re-measure after 24 hrs to see how much he ate. Put out just that amount and see if he eats it all, or reduce by 10% per week until the messy cecals stop.

 

[ladysown]

A baby holland lop should be eating about 1/2 cup pellets per day. That's an adult portion and is sufficient for a baby holland lop. This is assuming a 16-17% protein ratio. There is good research that shows that measure feeding helps bunnies develop more sound digestive systems which helps them to utilize the feed they are given more efficiently.

Ever since reading that research I've measure fed all my rabbits and I have way less digestive upset then I did before I measure fed. So serve your bunnies better long term health and measure fed an appropriate adult portion to a baby rabbit.

If baby buns are getting too much fat in their diet they can have a harder time with their cecals. Increase the hay, offer some oatmeal to help cut the fat ratio, cut ALL the fur back from around the bum area as it helps prevent it from sticking and makes it easier for baby to keep things clean.

 

[Nancy McClelland]

Also, some of ours eat them immediately and we never see them (thanks) while others don't touch them and they stay where laid til we pick them up. For cleanliness and not liking the smell, I pick them up rather than let them set--that way, no smell or smeared mess.

 

[OakRidgeRabbits]

A baby holland lop should be eating about 1/2 cup pellets per day. That's an adult portion and is sufficient for a baby holland lop. This is assuming a 16-17% protein ratio. There is good research that shows that measure feeding helps bunnies develop more sound digestive systems which helps them to utilize the feed they are given more efficiently.

Ever since reading that research I've measure fed all my rabbits and I have way less digestive upset then I did before I measure fed. So serve your bunnies better long term health and measure fed an appropriate adult portion to a baby rabbit.

If baby buns are getting too much fat in their diet they can have a harder time with their cecals. Increase the hay, offer some oatmeal to help cut the fat ratio, cut ALL the fur back from around the bum area as it helps prevent it from sticking and makes it easier for baby to keep things clean.

Yes, exactly what I was going to say. I know the HRS recommends unlimited pellets for young rabbits, but it has been my experience that it is always best to measure pellets.

Young Holland Lops seem to be especially prone to digestive upset. I've seen far more messy bottoms on them than the other breeds I've worked with, and they are all offered the same diet. Usually between the age of 4-8 weeks is when the problem starts. I always start out measuring about 1/2 cup pellets per kit at weaning, but when I see an upset, I cut back pellets even more and offer a pinch or two of oats with free choice hay. That always seems to help get them back on track.

 

[pshepard]

Thanks everyone! I was wondering about cutting back the pellets. Right now he's probably getting right at a cup a day...maybe a little less. I'll give him 1/2 a cup tomorrow morning and see how he fast he eats that and if that helps any. I cleaned him up about five hours ago and no mess so far so I'm pretty happy about that. He is sneezing a lot though. I took him to the vet two days after I got him b/c we noticed him sneezing on the ride home and he could barely breathe his second day. Doc gave us an antibiotic and he took that for 14 days, twice daily. He seemed okay until day 12 or 13 when he started sneezing again. It's his first official day off the meds and he's had a couple of sneezing fits and I can hear snot in his nose. I saw a little bit of a clear discharge but that's it. I called the doc and she said to go for another round of antibiotics. I've read all kinds of differing opinions online from have him xrayed and his nose swabbed to run him on a different antibiotic for another two weeks. What do you all think? I'm assuming that his flat face means he's going to have nasal issues like a pug would? I just don't want him suffering.

 

[ladysown]

sneezing kit, on meds... poopy butt...hmm...

sounds like a bunny requiring some gut support. feed that kit more hay. just a nice grass hay. Keep his gut moving well.

But the snot and sneezing makes me think he's really not okay.

 

[tonyshuman]

The sneezing is certainly something to be concerned about. The things you mentioned can be helpful to figure out what's wrong, but should be approached as increasing levels of complexity in treatment. Depending on the antibiotic used, it may be good to try a different one. Was it TMS/TMZ/trimethoprim sulfa? Those may not be "strong" enough to deal with most bunny URI bacteria. If it was Baytril (enrofloxacin), that probably should have been sufficient. The cheapest solution is to try another antibiotic. A more comprehensive approach would be to swab the nose and have the mucus cultured to determine what bacteria are there and what antibiotics they're sensitive to. Trial and error for choosing an antibiotic works sometimes, if you pay attention and change meds if there's no improvement after 3-4 days. If you try most of the commonly used antibiotics without improvement, then an x-ray is probably needed. Clear mucus is more likely to be from something other than a URI, for which the x-ray would be helpful. Are his front teeth ok? However, since the meds seemed to help for a little while, it is hard to rule out bacterial. So all of the things you have heard about are potential solutions, but I'd first try another antibiotic before going to get an x-ray.

It's possible the antibiotic made him have GI problems.

 

[pshepard]

I'm not sure what antibiotic he was on. The vet is putting him on a new one tomorrow though. I haven't noticed anything wrong with his teeth. The vet looked at him two weeks ago and didn't note anything to be concerned about. As far as the antibiotic affecting his GI, I don't think that's it. He's had messy cecals since day one and he wasn't on the antibiotic until day three. He didn't take any yesterday or today and he's still having the messy cecals issue. I can confirm they are cecals b/c they are grouped together like bunches of grapes.

 

[pshepard]

Update on the cecals issue:

I cut back his food to 1/4 cup of pellets in the morning and decided I can give him another 1/4 cup later on if he eats all of that. I'm still having the cecals issue though. He didn't have any this morning laying around but he's been snoozing for the past hour or two and I've noticed they are there now. It looks like he's doing it in his sleep or something? Is that normal?

Also, he started his new antibiotic today for the sneezing. Vet said it was Baytril he was on originally and now he's on something called Vibramycin. The vet said he gained 90 some odd grams in the last 16 days so his sneezing isn't anything to be concerned about right now. They said if he doesn't get better or if his condition worsens to call right away. Right now, he's set up for another checkup in two weeks.

 

[tonyshuman]

Usually bunnies will wake up to eat their cecals. Sometimes they won't eat them if they have a GI parasite or infection, but that would be pretty obvious I would think--he probably wouldn't be putting on weight. It could be possible that he doesn't care, but by reducing the pellets he will need the nutrients in his cecals, and then maybe he'll pay more attention.

Vibramycin contains doxycyclin, which isn't often used in bunnies, but it may work. Do you have a probiotic to give with the antibiotic? I always think that is a good idea.

 

[pshepard]

Thanks for the reply! I bought him this stuff I guess close to two weeks ago and started giving him 1 a day: http://www.oxbowanimalhealth.com/products/type/detail?object=8404

Would this count as a probiotic or would you recommend something else? I read online that a probiotic would be good for him and this was the only thing Petsmart had for rabbit digestive support.

Usually bunnies will wake up to eat their cecals. Sometimes they won't eat them if they have a GI parasite or infection, but that would be pretty obvious I would think--he probably wouldn't be putting on weight. It could be possible that he doesn't care, but by reducing the pellets he will need the nutrients in his cecals, and then maybe he'll pay more attention.

Vibramycin contains doxycyclin, which isn't often used in bunnies, but it may work. Do you have a probiotic to give with the antibiotic? I always think that is a good idea.

 

[JBun]

That doesn't have probiotics in it. You should be able to pick up a tube of it from the vet, or petsmart should have it in the cat or dog section. The common ones used for rabbits are Bene bac or Probios. You can also sometimes get a tube of it at a feed store. You'll want to start your rabbit on it in very small doses to begin with, like smaller than pea sized, or it could cause a gut slowdown.

 

[pshepard]

Thanks! Just ordered some Bene-Bac. Ordered this one online since my local pet store doesn't carry it: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002V8P2SO/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

How much would you recommend I give him in the beginning and when should I go to full doses? I'm assuming the bottle will list what a full dose is for a rabbit?

That doesn't have probiotics in it. You should be able to pick up a tube of it from the vet, or petsmart should have it in the cat or dog section. The common ones used for rabbits are Bene bac or Probios. You can also sometimes get a tube of it at a feed store. You'll want to start your rabbit on it in very small doses to begin with, like smaller than pea sized, or it could cause a gut slowdown.

 

[tonyshuman]

That's a good choice. For most pre/probiotics, I recommend a gram a day until there's improvement. That's probably a half teaspoon, maybe a quarter teaspoon? I haven't had a ton of success with the powdered stuff, but I used the ProBios powder. My guys prefer the gel and will eat it like a treat. Some people who use the powder put it on wet veggies, but that's out of the question probably for yours. You'll probably have to mix it up with water and give via oral syringe or hope he laps up the water himself.

I hadn't seen that Oxbow product before. It's interesting. I wonder if others have had success with it?