Are you vegetarian? ..or vegan?

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I lived on Guam for a year, and worked in the conservation field. I have seen theeffects that overpopulation of wildlife can cause, especially non-native species.

The feral deer and hogs seriously need to be eradicated, as they are causing massive amounts of destruction to the native habitats and species. In this case, it is the hunters that are keeping them there, because they want to hunt them. Wildlife officials can't get any permission to remove the animals, because of the hunters.

Of course, this is a different situation to what is going on Stateside, and I'm just throwing it out there.

I still wouldn't eat the animals.

;)
 
Happi Bun wrote:
AndersonsRabbits wrote:
You do realize even if you didnt eat meat, a lot of the stuff you have in your house is made of animals anyway?
I can't think of 'a lot' of objects in a home that are made from animal meat, excluding of course leather furniture, clothes, shoes, belts, etc. Though most Vegetarian's and especially Vegan's are not going to buy such items. There are plenty of alternatives that do not involve killing an animal.

On that subject though, many people view vegetarianism as pointless because it's such a huge industry. Vegetarians only make up a small percent of the human population. Someone can only do so much to be cruelty free before they are living bare as a newborn in some mud hut in the jungle. However, just because cruelty continues doesn't mean someone is obligated to take part.

For Vegetarians, being one is not something that's debatable. You cannot simply say, "Slaughter houses aren't all bad, trust me. Here's a steak." An animal still died for the sake of your taste buds (note when I say 'your' I'm not directing it literally at you) Many do it because they personally feel better with themselves, spiritually and mentally. :)

I very greatly dislike vegetables and I'm a fast food junkie, so the transition for me is very difficult. Eating meat is easy. Even if something isn't made out of flesh, when you look at the ingredients it usually will have some form of animal meat. Some fast food joints even cook their only vegetarian options in the oil the meat is cooked in. Kind of defeats the reason for putting it on there.

See, your feel that hunting is fine, actually that it saves our "natural" ecosystem. I disagree and believe me, I have my reasons and would go into great detail. ;) However, I personally do not enjoy debates. I get enough headaches away from the computer. I like it to be my relaxation zone. Plus, I find when people start defending their beliefs in when trouble starts.

Beyond the Dinner Plate...

Animals provide us with much more than food, including the bone china we serve it on! In fact, about 45% of each food animal is actually used to make products other than food. Many of these products are part of our every day lives.

Around the house: From the paint and wallpaper on the walls to the linoleum and carpet on the floors, we’re literally surrounded by items that include products from animals. Animal products are used to make the plywood and drywall used in buildings and in the insulation that keeps them warm. Refrigerators and air conditioners use freon, a cooling agent that contains a derivative from animal fat. Egg whites are used in ceramic tile and catalase enzyme is used to make foam rubber. Laundry detergents and fabric softeners contain animal products as do many disinfectants, household cleaners and polishes. Animals even give us candles and the matches to light them with. Just as feather pillows and wool blankets help us sleep better, the many products animals provide add comfort to our lives.

Getting us there: Whether we walk, bike, drive or fly, animal products help to get us where we are going. The asphalt on roads and walkways, the concrete blocks used to build bridges, even the steel in trains and planes are made using animal products. Animals also play a part in all sorts of mechanical items. For example, fatty acids and proteins are used to make lubricants and fluids. Glycerol is in brake fluid and anti-freeze while stearic acid is used to help tires hold their shape and improve their wear.

Helping us look good: Many personal care products either contain animal ingredients or involve animal products in the manufacturing process. These items include sunscreens, deodorants, soaps and shampoos, cosmetics, toothpastes and mouthwashes. For example, lanolin, an oil that is removed from sheep wool before it can be spun and dyed, is used in hand creams and make-up. Animals also help clothe us. Wool, felt, down, leather and fur are obvious. Less obvious are buttons used to fasten clothes and fabric dyes used to colour them. Decorative items like mother of pearl and tortoise shell also come from farm animals.

For our health: Over 350 pharmaceuticals come from animals. At the pharmacy, animals give us cold and allergy medicines and the gelatin capsules they come in. Stomach remedies, vitamins and mineral supplements are also derived from animals. Many lifesaving drugs such as cortisone and insulin, and treatments for anaemia, emphysema, malaria, stroke and heart attacks are animal-based. While some pharmaceuticals, such as insulin, can now be synthesized through biotechnology many are still made more economically from animal-based products. Medical supplies also rely on animal products. For example; latex surgical gloves contain tallow, x-ray film contains gelatin, and wool grease is used to make thermometers heat sensitive.

Animals help us live a healthier lifestyle. They contribute in countless ways to our sports and recreation. Sheep wool gives baseballs their bounce. Gelatin helps golf balls roll straight. Leather, foam rubber and plastics are used in most types of sports equipment. Sheep intestines are used to string some types of sports racquets while poultry feathers are thought to make the best darts and fishing lures.

Making our jobs easier and safer: Animals are an integral part of our economy. Not only do they support farmers and food businesses but their by-products provide source materials needed for hundreds of other industries and thousands of jobs.

At the office, animals help to make computers and photocopiers work. Animal products are used in making the electrical circuitry, the ink toners to print onto copy paper and even the paper itself. Factories need animals too. Steel ball bearings and lubricants contain animal products that help machinery run smoothly and safely. Industrial cleaners and fire extinguishers are made using animal ingredients, helping keep the workplace safe.

Animals give health care and rescue workers the medicines, diagnostic tools and equipment to help both people and animals. The film and publishing industries depend on animal products for things like photographic films and filters, inks and papers. Artists and musicians rely on them for brushes and art supplies and instruments like drums, pianos, and other tools of the trade. Wherever we work, animals help us do our jobs.

Livestock are Nature’s Blue Box... Animals and animal products play an important role in conserving resources and reducing waste. By recycling plant and man-made by-products to meet farm animal needs, we greatly reduce our waste disposal needs.

For example, one average sized Ontario manufacturer alone uses 80-100 tonnes of stale bread a day to make farm animal feed. Over the course of a year, this amounts to about 600 tractor trailer loads of bread that has gone stale on supermarket shelves and would otherwise go into landfill.

In turn, by using 98% (or more) of every animal we make efficient use of a renewable natural resource which, unlike many synthetics, breakdown quickly in the ecosystem. Animals and animal products are important in meeting human and animal needs in an efficient and sustainable way.

Website I found this on: http://www.ofac.org/issues/animals_everyday.php


 
Wow, that's very interesting, thanks for posting all that. I wonder how Vegan's do it?! Not having anything to do with any kind of animal product. I had no idea all those things are related to animals. :shock: Like I said, someone can only do so much to be cruelty free before they are living bare as a newborn in some mud hut in the jungle. Though that does make me question how effective deciding to be a vegetarian is if so many other products you buy are made out of essentially what you have vowed to stop consuming.
 
slavetoabunny wrote:
The nice thing about still eating fish and shellfish, is that you can go out to a restaurant and still have a lot of options. Sushi anyone?

Count me in - one of my favorite meals is sushi....

Eggplant parmigiana is my other favorite vegetarian meal, and vegetarian chili and eggplant/almond enchiladas...

Getting hungry here!

Denise
 
DeniseJP wrote:
slavetoabunny wrote:
The nice thing about still eating fish and shellfish, is that you can go out to a restaurant and still have a lot of options. Sushi anyone?

Count me in - one of my favorite meals is sushi....

Eggplant parmigiana is my other favorite vegetarian meal, and vegetarian chili and eggplant/almond enchiladas...

Getting hungry here!

Denise
Mmmmmm..........I need to get down to our favorite Italian restaurant for some eggplant! My carnivore hubby loves their Linguine con le vongole (angel hair pasta with white clam sauce). Not to mention the excellent fried calamari with Arabbiata Sauce. Totally sinful
 
I have to agree with you Patti, I could never give up seafood! Honestly I find myself eating meat less and less, most days I wont even eat any at all now, but being a broke student does that too, lol. Being a pescatarian is so much cheaper on the wallet.
And as for cosmetic products, I dont even wear make-up anymore, makes my skin itchy and uncomfortable, and I always forget Im wearing it and smear it everywhere, lol. Now I just need to convince my sisters that they are using it way too much, wish me luck :)
 
AndersonsRabbits wrote:
I have to ask... what makes a fish less then any other animal? Those of you who don't eat any other meat, but fish and seafoods alright.
I won't argue that a fish is less important than any other creature, but I did post earlier in this topic that my reason for being a pescatarian was health related and had nothing to do with my love for animals.
 
I eat meat and am an Agricultural Sciences major in college. Bottom line is that, whether you like it or not, you rely on animals as a resources. Animals can be friends or family members as well, but the extreme lengths that some go to avoid "using" animals is honestly very useless. Like californiagirl showed us, you're not off the hook just by refusing to eat meat. ;) In fact, this movement could even drive us to waste a lot of the animals, since we'll still need them for "parts" but will have no use for the meat.

Also, just as a sidenote, the videos and pictures and "undercover" footage you see on TV or on the internet is often staged to give you a particular feeling and manipulate your feelins. Feel free to believe whatever you want to but PLEASE, find your information first hand to back yourself up. Until you've gone and seen the circumstances under which animals are kept, don't let it influence your lifestyle. Not worth worrying about, since most of it is not reliable or reputable info.
 
slavetoabunny wrote:
AndersonsRabbits wrote:
I have to ask... what makes a fish less then any other animal? Those of you who don't eat any other meat, but fish and seafoods alright.
I won't argue that a fish is less important than any other creature, but I did post earlier in this topic that my reason for being a pescatarian was health related and had nothing to do with my love for animals.

I am not going to argue about this either. *shrug* It's lonely enough being a pescatarian in NE Kansas without argueing about it. (Vegetarians don't like that I still eat fish, and the meat eaters don't like that I don't eat birds/mammals, especially in the barbecue mecca that is Kansas City. Whatever.)
 
I'm a pescatarian as well. I would be a full vegetarian but I don't think that at 19 with my super active lifestyle that I could really keep it up and still be healthy. I know other people can, but I'm a college student and cant prepare elaborate meals every night.

My reasons for doing it were mostly environmental. Raising cows and chickens is very costly to our environment and a straight up waste in my opinion. Also, I feel like it keeps me away from all the nasty friend food and gives me a nice peace of mind everytime I drive past cows. :)


But mostly, its the environmental stuff. Simply by not eating meat I feel like i'm helping out a lot.
 
BethM wrote:
slavetoabunny wrote:
AndersonsRabbits wrote:
I have to ask... what makes a fish less then any other animal? Those of you who don't eat any other meat, but fish and seafoods alright.
I won't argue that a fish is less important than any other creature, but I did post earlier in this topic that my reason for being a pescatarian was health related and had nothing to do with my love for animals.

I am not going to argue about this either. *shrug* It's lonely enough being a pescatarian in NE Kansas without argueing about it. (Vegetarians don't like that I still eat fish, and the meat eaters don't like that I don't eat birds/mammals, especially in the barbecue mecca that is Kansas City. Whatever.)
I agree that we should all respect each other preferences. Our rescue has a large number of meat eaters. Whenever we have a rescue gathering, we always offer meat options. To each his own. I have no problem preparing and serving meat in my home.
 
I don't eat red meat very often..maybe once every couple weeks. I do like chicken and love fish.
I do it mainly because I don't have a desire..
I tried to become vegitarian but it gets too difficult..or I slip up unconciously.
The only reason why I would become a vegitarian is health reasons..I also agree most places blow up the bad things..esp PETA whom I am strictly against.

I also don't eat donuts, waffles, cookies, ect becuase something with wheat AND sugar makes me sick..although I love pasta and soda..its the combo that makes me feel really ill.
 
I think its a matter of what you want.

If given the choice of beef chicken or fish I would choose fish first chicken second.

Unless steak then the steak tops.

It a matter of choice my mom never cooked pork so i dont eat it unless i cook it cause it makes me sick my sister does not allow her children to eat any pork.

Its matter of preference and we should all remember that.

I could never not eat meat. That dies not mean i am going to tell you you should.

Allow our body's are made to eat meat. But the one thing most people dont know is our body's are made to eat raw meat not cooked meat.

I am not saying anything to get anything started. I was stated somehting I was told long ago.
 
I'm a vegan and yes I am aware that it is impossible to live a life 100% free of animal products. I do not see that as a reason to use animal products that I don't need to use, however. The fact that some of my choices as a consumer have been robbed by modern industry does not mean I should give up on my remaining choices.

I went vegan for a myriad of reasons. The primary reason I am a vegan is this: pretty much everything we do in life rides on the back of the suffering of others. However, I see no reason to cause suffering when I don't need to for my survival. Deliberate consumption of animal products is a choice, not a necessity, and I would not choose to do something that I know harms others.

In addition to exploiting, killing, and often abusing animals, modern industrial animal agriculture is inefficient in terms of resource use, pollutes the environment, is linked to workers' rights abuses, and frankly isn't all that good for your health unless in moderation.

I am fully aware that modern industrial plant agriculture has many of the same issues, but considering that the overwhelming majority of our major crops are used for animal feed, animal consumption is even more linked to industrial plant agriculture than a vegan diet. And thankfully, there are enough local farms in my area that I can have a good say in where my much of my produce comes from. I would not have a good say in where the corn fed to my steak came from even if the steak itself was local & well cared for.

I have been to both very good and very bad modern farms. I've had first hand experience not only observing but participating in much of what livestock is subjected to. I'm not someone naive who has read a little too much PETA propoganda; in fact, I actively dislike PETA. I don't believe that farmers are evil animal murderers; in fact, I feel really, really bad for modern farmers (plant and animal), because they're being forced to adopt industrial agriculture or be driven out of business. And I have no unrealistic ideas of living a "cruelty free life" because it doesn't exist. I simply do what helps me sleep better at night by trying not to contribute to anything I find morally abhorrent if I don't NEED to.


Because farm sanctuary came up, can I clear a misconception stated in this thread? Farm sanctuary does not want to "return all animals to the wild." In fact, short of PETA & the ALF, I don't think I know any animal rights or animal welfare organization that thinks we should go let loose domesticated animals. Heck many of Farm Sanctuary's rescues were stray livestock. Farm Sanctuary's founder, whom I know personally, is a philisophical vegan. This means he opposes the exploitation of animals, and breeding animals so that we can keep them as food, pets, etc. is a form of exploitation. Most philisophical vegans believe that we should stop breeding animals in captivity for human usage and allow domesticated strains to naturally lapse into extinction via the end of production, NOT that we should release the ones already here. I see animal welfarists being accused of not doing their research and I'd like to ask the same; please research what a philisophical animal rights perspective actually is before making claims about it rather than relying on what fundamentally insane fringe organization has perverted it into.

Also:
You can't imagine the amount of starvation that would happen with deer, and other animals, rabbits, exc... if hunting did not thin out the excess.

...So? Starvation in the absence of adequate resources is how nature deals with overpopulation and always has. It may look sad, but it is a good thing from an ecology perspective. It weeds out weak individuals, provides needed winter prey for predators and scavengers, and reduces reproductive success. That means a more sustainable population of herbivores and a more balanced ecosystem.

Putting hunting season right before winter is one of the dumbest ecological moves we've ever made. Winter naturally results in starvation, weaker body condition, etc. in herbivores. This means that in the absence of sufficient resources, unfit individuals perish and the ammount of young born is limited (and their suvival is based only on what the environment can support).

By artifically lowering numbers sigificantly below winter, we interfere with natural selection; I don't think nature had the meatiest does and the healthiest bucks in mind for "who dies this winter?" This not only lets less fit individuals survive to reproduce, but a fatter winter means more fawns and more successful birthing & rearing.

Before humans, nature regulated populations just fine. And it will continue to if we stop interfering with it. I guarentee a few good winter starve-offs would do MUCH more for reducing deer populations than hunting ever has.

We'll have even BETTER luck if we stop slaughtering predators every time they try to make a rebound in population - a policy we have routinely adopted to protect hoofstock FOR the hunting industry. Predators will not "whipe out" our hoofstock; again, nature does fine regulating itself. When herbivores become too scarce, predators starve to death, their populations drop, and herbivore populations rise. Look at any chart of ecological data on predator/prey cycles. This is how it as always been, and it is the best way to maintain a healthy ecosystem.

I am yet to see an example of an ecosystem where"management" by humans did an equally good job at creating a balanced ecosystem as the systems nature put in place. Indeed historically our wildlife "management" policies have spelled little but disaster for the environment. Our policies with furbearers, predators, marine mammals, and fish have been nothing short of ecological disasters, while our policies in hoofstock "management" offer no meaningful, long-term solution to the overpopulation we caused by upsetting predator/prey relationships.Nature does a much better job than us, period, so we should probably just quit meddling with it.
 
Eeep. I feel a little like a jerk; the hunting discussion is kindof O/T, isn't it? I don't mean any offense to the OP if I've caused a derailment! I'll stay on topic for any further posts in this thread, promise.
 
RandomWiktor wrote:
Because farm sanctuary came up, can I clear a misconception stated in this thread? Farm sanctuary does not want to "return all animals to the wild." In fact, short of PETA & the ALF, I don't think I know any animal rights or animal welfare organization that thinks we should go let loose domesticated animals. Heck many of Farm Sanctuary's rescues were stray livestock. Farm Sanctuary's founder, whom I know personally, is a philisophical vegan. This means he opposes the exploitation of animals, and breeding animals so that we can keep them as food, pets, etc. is a form of exploitation. Most philisophical vegans believe that we should stop breeding animals in captivity for human usage and allow domesticated strains to naturally lapse into extinction via the end of production, NOT that we should release the ones already here. I see animal welfarists being accused of not doing their research and I'd like to ask the same; please research what a philisophical animal rights perspective actually is before making claims about it rather than relying on what fundamentally insane fringe organization has perverted it into.

I didn't say that that's what Farm Sanctuary wanted to do, but I do believe that is one of PETA's goals, perhaps it didn't flow as well as I had intended it to. What I did say is that, in my mind, I lumped Farm Sanctuary in with PETA because I know that both have given out misinformation, or information that certainly lacked a huge number of facts from the opposing viewpoint, that have resulted in horrible, and horribly inaccurate, descriptions of animal agriculture.
 
Ah, I miunderstood; I thought you were saying that PETA/Farm sanctuary shared the same philosophy. They definitely do not. I respect how you feel about their portrayal of agriculture, but I think it's fair to say that industrial agriculture also gives a pretty misleading view of what it entails and tends to sweep a lot of its problems under the carpet and pretend they don't exist. Both sides of the coin have an agenda and both sides mislead the public as a result. Somewhere between the two lies the truth.
 
slavetoabunny wrote:
I agree that we should all respect each other preferences. Our rescue has a large number of meat eaters. Whenever we have a rescue gathering, we always offer meat options. To each his own. I have no problem preparing and serving meat in my home.
Thanks, Patti.

Since my reasons for no longer eating birds/mammals are mainly about cruelty, I catch a lot of heat from people arguing that fish are no different than any other animal. I think people who have made a dietary choice don't really get the same criticism. I may consider telling people it is just a dietary choice, so I don't get the criticism. A lot of people I know think it's ok to not eat something for health reasons, or because you just don't like it, but once ethics/cruelty comes into the discussion, it turns into a heated debate.

(It reminds me of the criticism I get for saying I don't want to have kids. But when I say I "can't" have kids, I get sympathy instead. I do want to say that I absolutely respect people who choose to be parents, I just don't want to have kids myself. See, I feel like I have to put a disclaimer on it, because of all the criticism.)

Personally, I do not think I would prepare a meat dish, if I were to host an event in my house. However, if I had a pot-luck in my house, I wouldn't make a fuss if someone brought a dish containing meat. I just wouldn't eat it, and probably wouldn't even say anything about it, unless it was just, "I don't eat that." My husband no longer eats meat at home, because I don't want to cook it, and he's too lazy to make it himself. To be fair, I never enjoyed handling raw meat, even when I still ate it. I was always OCD about wearing gloves, and disinfectant spray on all the counters, even the ones I wasn't even preparing the meat near.
Even though I still eat fish, I don't even like to handle that myself. It is rare for me to make it at home.


On hunting........I grew up in a "hunting" home. My grandpa was really big on hunting. I never thought any of the wild game he brought home tasted good. I can distinctly remember thinking one thing tasted good, but when my grandma told me to "be careful of the buckshot" I didn't eat any more of it. Yuck!!
I did hear a report on the radio recently (this past summer) about how hunting has, over the years, had a negative effect on wildlife populations. The reasoning was that humans generally prefer the larger, stronger, more robust animals, leaving the younger, smaller, weaker animals among the breeding population. I haven't followed through with the research, but it is an interesting thing to think about.


 
Omnivore here. =D

I grew up hunting, around it, and all that. I learned to not waste the animal, and use everything that we could. What we couldn't, (bones, and hooves, and such) would be returned to the same spot we killed the animal, for the mice and rats to find, and gnaw on for the marrow.

As far as the animals we eat: Lots of deer, some elk, some turkey, lots of duck/goose, etc. Umn. Shellfish we dig ourselves (we live half an hour from the prime shellfishing spot in WA), and lots of salmon/random rockfish/freshwater fish.

We hardly ever buy meat from the store. =D Only once in a while, when we want to cook steak. (cows are not feasible to own in the city. XD) And eggs. The city as strict rules on chickens inside city limits.

So... yeah. =D

The only thing we buy from the store is eggs, because it's too far
 

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