Abnormal poops

[the fluffies]

- Location : Penang, Malaysia

- Description (Breed, color., weight) : Male Holland Lop, Broken Choc (charlie), 1.05kg

- Age : 3.5 month old

- Notes on Fecal and Urinary Output
- are the bunny's poops and pees normal? : He poops and pees normally but the poops don’t look normal to me
- When did they last use their litterbox? : a minute ago
- Any unusual behavior? : No

- Medical History -- has s/he been to the vet or been sick before? : No

- Diet - what does your bunny eat? : Timothy hay and BB15/23
- when and what did s/he eat last? : Just a minute ago

- movement - any unusual movements? Is s/he hopping normally? : Yes

- are there any plants, chocolate or other substances within reach? : No, but i’m afraid he ate fruits or oats from the seniors’ area.

- has the rabbit been outdoors? : No

Hello, i'm new here..

Since last Saturday (2 May), i noticed that Shiro's poops became bigger (almost triple) and softer (not mushy) and smellier (smells like cecotropes). What possibilities can causes this abnormal poops size?

A day before that, i played with him and he ate alot of pellet while we're playing. He ate more (double or triple) than his usual/daily intake. Can this caused the problem?

I tried to adjust his diet. I stop giving pellet on Monday. But still no change of the poops appearance. I wont dare to stop the hay. I'm afraid the poops become harder and he will constipate.
I have other senior rabbits, squirrels and chipmunks. I'm afraid Shiro might had eaten fruits/oats/sunflower seeds that spilt out from their cages. Shiro is just 3 and a half months old :tears2:

Here's some photo of the poops.. Sorry, i know these might look disgusting, but i hope it can help to solve my bunny's problem:

Taken on Monday, 4th May 2009 :

Taken on 6th May :

Taken on 7th May :

The poops size is getting more abnormal, this worried me so much :tears2:. We dont have rabbit savvy in this area. I've rang a few vet and asked about this. They said is it something that i do not need to worry. They said, "Dewormed, and the problem solve!"

I hope this is not the sign of 'megacolon' that i've been reading over the internet. Please advice. Thank u. ray:

 

[the fluffies]

I just found more oval-shaped poops in his litterbox

 

[tonyshuman]

Thanks for all the great information, and the pics don't bother me at all! In fact, they really help.

The first two pics do look like megacolon poos, unfortunately. There's a bunny at the shelter I help at who constantly has poos like this, although it seems to be fine for him. Megacolon can be difficult to deal with, and I haven't had anybun of my own with it. It is not as common in Holland lops, though, and is seen more on Hotots.

The 3rd pic looks like cecals that are kind of messed up to me. This isn't a sign of megacolon, as far as I know. The 3rd pic poos, plus the fact that he's a Holland, not a Hotot, and the fact that they aren't always present make me think that this is a dietary disturbance. I think it's most likely that he did get into the seeds and oats that his young tummy can't handle yet, and these caused some GI upset, probably in disruption of the normal GI flora.

The best remedy I can think of right now is pushing the hay. I know at this age he's supposed to be on unlimited pellets, but you might consider cutting back on them a little for a few days to make him eat more hay. If he is a megacolon bun (which I doubt), I would go to a more hay-based diet in the long run anyway, since that's what the shelter bunny eats mostly.

I do not think that deworming would hurt, especially if he may have been exposed to other species or has recently come from the breeder. In fact, some people with many bunnies (breeders and pet owners alike) have their bunnies on a regular de-worming schedule.

The other thing I would think is necessary in this case is a probiotic. Here, we use something called Bene-Bac. It contains these microorganisms: Lactobacillus acidophilus, Lactobacillus plantarum, Enterococcus faecium, Lactobacillus casei. In my experience, if my guys have funny poos like that, I can give them a dose in the morning and they're back to normal by the time I get home from work. Sometimes I do have to do that 2 days in a row. This product is made for dogs, so you may be able to find it or something similar. They also make something called ProBios here for horses that is the same thing. A second option that is less desirable but may help is brewer's yeast, which is commonly given as a dietary supplement to dogs. Do not give yogurt.

And finally, that is one of the cutest bunnies I have EVER seen. :adorable:

 

[Maureen Las]

That is one cute bunny;
I would initially think that this is the result of the bun getting too many pellets and too much of the other animals food'you should just keep him on hay and a smaller amt of his own pelletsand water for now and (like Claire said) try to get a probiotic

A horse probiotic from a farm store will work ...

In some of the pics it looks like small pieces of seeds etc is in the cecals which is probably the result of the seeds and stuff that he ate ..
try to do your best to keep him away from that other food or you will havemore problems

he is still a very young rabbit and young rabbits are prone to have problems with their GI tract if not fed correctly

 

[Flashy]

Is he moulting? Some of my buns get poos like that when they moult. Other than that, I have nothing of any use to add and want to say he's gorgeous

 

[the fluffies]

Thanks, guys.

I'm sooo relief if to know he doesn't has the 'megacolon' problem.

Yes,i'm pushing the hay since Monday. But seemed the poops didnt't change, so since yesterday i start giving him his normal diet : Oxbow BB15/23 and timothy diet (Shiro doesn't really touch his alfalfa hay) He drinks well too.

I'm bringing him to the vet today. Vets around here don't carry Benebac, but i hope they have other probiotic for my little one

And Shiro is molting at the moment.

Other than than, he looks perfectly healthy - roaming and chinning around, digging his food bowl and begging for head rub.

 

[Maureen Las]

You can get benebac at Petco;I get the powder form intead of the gel and mix it with a piece of banana.
you can also order it online


http://www.revivalanimal.com/store/p/1401-BeneBac-Pet-Gel-Powder.aspx

you can also use probiotics like Probios which are sold for horses at farm stores like farm and fleet

 

[edwinf8936]

Kind of looks like it could be a shedding thing. Is he eating any greens? If so I would cut back on them. More hay would be good. Check in a few days if they have gotten more back to normal. Sometimes they will go through a couple days where the poops are a little odd then go back to normal. In that case the exact cause if hard to pin down. Just keep a close eye on him.



ed

 

[ra7751]

Just a quick thought.....I don't buy into the "megacolon" theory. In my experience, that is just another of the "explanations" when the true explanation is not known. If I have a drastic change in fecal matter with odor....I am thinking parasites. Coccidia has an odor all it's own. And some worms can produce quite an odor. We had a rabbit we found with hookworms (a first for us) and we could smell her all over the house. You might have a fecal float performed by a vet. The test for worms is a bit inaccurate so if I suspect worms, I treat for the most common ones. Fenbendazole (Panacur) is the most used and effective drug. Coccidia are quite easy to see on a slide....most professionals say they look like fried eggs....look more like UFOs to me. Coccidia is a tougher thing to treat. Albon is the most common treatment. I have used Marquis (just because I have some as it is not commonly available and terribly expensive) but in reality, the immune system is the only real treatment for coccidia.

Just another possibility that should be considered. And in case anyone is wondering....your rabbit does not have to be outside to contract these parasites. They can be in the food (especially greens), the water or they can hitch a ride on you especially your shoes.

Randy

 

[the fluffies]

Hello, guys. Thanks for all advise.

I've brought Shiro to the vet last Friday. The vet checked on the pupils, palpated his stomach and check on his poops.He said Shiro has a lot of gas in his stomach. Shiro might have eating something (the fruits or oats from the adults rabbits) that caused the poops and the gas. I haven't give any fruits and greens to Shiro since he is just 3.5 months old.

So the vet gave the gas medicine. But too bad i cant get the name since the vet didn't answer me when i asked

It is not a simethicone. But this is the same medicine i used to feed Momoy (my cat) when she was constipated.

After a few minutes, Shiro smelt like a big cecal (rabbit can fart?) LOL!. Within an hour, Shiro passed a lot of poops.

The first poops looked like cecostropes (mushy), but they came out in the normal-poops sizes and didn't clumpy to each other (rounded, piece by piece). When i picked them up by toilet paper and squeezed, the poops make some 'pop' sound.

In the second poops (after 20-30 minutes), half of them made 'pop' sound when i squeezed.

The third poops (after 10-20 minutes after the 2nd poops), didnt make any sound and looked normal to me

I still feed the medicine twice a day. And until this morning, the poops still smelly. But i can see half of the poops looked like normal poops. Only some of them looked bigger and smellier.

I still couldn't find Benebac in the area (local vets and local online petstore). I will go to www.revivalanimal.com as my last option. I wonder if we can give human's probiotic as long as i can find a human probiotic contained Enterococcus and L.casei.

Thanks for the advise, Randy. I will bring Shiro for deworm soon. And hope his poops will normal soon.

Thanks

 

[the fluffies]

A little update on Shiro's condition :

I have stop giving the gas medicine on Monday nite since there is no change to his poops' odour (yes, still smelly). I talked to the vet and i will bring Shiro to deworm tomorrow or on Friday.

And there is still some abnormal poops in his tray.

This was taken on yesterday, 12 May 2009 :

And this was taken this morning, 13 May 2009 :

And this is the rest of the poops :

Any advise/opinion???

 

[Maureen Las]

I have a feeling that the 'gas' medicine given to you by the vet is probably a petroleum based product made for cats to help pass hair.
The name would be different from here in the US but look on the tube and you can explain the contents.
This isn't necessarily going to help a whole lot

a probiotic would be better..

I think that you can use a human probiotic but I am sure that you can use a horse probiotic which would come in a big tube and be sold at a farm store.
To be honest I don't know for sure what is going on but I would stop the cat laxative and then see what the poops look like. if they continue to look abnormal then I would treat the rabbit for internat parasites as Randy has suggested

I think the 3rd group of poops look the most normal (Does the man in the photo on the newspapaer in the 2nd pic know that he has rabbit poop on his face LOL)

I assume that she hasn't been allowed to get into the other animals food again ?

 

[tonyshuman]

I think all of those poops look strange. I can't quite tell which are best. I don't think gas medicine will help at this point because he doesn't seem to have gas symptoms. I would actually guess that the med the vet gave was a GI stimulant like reglan that causes the gut to contract, and it got his gut going again. If he hasn't gotten into the adults' food again, it may well be parasites. Any probiotic you can find at this point that contains the correct bacteria will be helpful whether or not it is parasites. Good luck at the vet!

 

[the fluffies]

I brought Shiro to the vet on Thursday.

The vet didn't ask any fecal sample from me. He said he is using mixed-dewormer which kills almost of the parasites. As always, he didn't tell the drug's name no matter how i ask

He said wait until a month. If the poops still misshapen and smelly, i need to bring Shiro to him again.

Means now i have to wait for a month??

He is just dewormed but is it okay if i give him probiotic? I should'nt give any harm, rite?

 

[Maureen Las]

the probioitc is fine to use even with the dewormer

it is too bad that the vet would not tell you the name of the meds but you did try to get them so you need to be given some credit for having the initiative.

Ihope this helps Shiro!!

 

[the fluffies]

I couldn't find Benebac here. My friend from Kuala Lumpur will help me get it from her area and send to me in a few days.

This morning i went to a pharmacy to find simethicone. And i found Zellox-II. Each 10ml contains :

- Aluminium Hydroxide wet gel 800mg
- Magnesium Hydroxide 800g
- Simethicone (activated Polymethylsiloxane) 60g
- Preservatives : Methyl paraben 0.1% and paraben 0.05%

Q : can this be use as gas medicine for rabbit, esp young rabbit like Shiro?

I also found Lacto-5. It comes with vegetable capsule. It contains :

- Lactobacillus Acidophilus TSS,
- Lactobacillus casei RJ-1,
- Lactobacillus bulgaricus JG-5,
- Bifidobacterium longum EP-10 and
- Streptococcus thermophilus AN-9.

Q : Can i use this one on Shiro too?

 

[the fluffies]

 

[Maureen Las]

Don't use Zelloc 2. The ingredient has to be just simethicone and not aluminum hydroxide and magnesium hydroxide

if you go back to the pharmacy and look for liquid gas medication for infants and then look at the back you should be able to find one that says simethicone and not the other ingredients (except the preservatives are OK)
a liquid would be easier to give. anyway . If you cannot find it ask the pharmacist to find a liquid product with ONLY simthicone in it

Sorry you went through all that effort

the lacto 5 should be OK but you will have to open the capsule and mix the contents with some banana or something

 

[the fluffies]

Thanks for the advice. I really appreciate it

 

[shoji8]

Hi there, where to get such things in Penang phamacies? Also, Bene Bact, it has to be brought in from the US? Gel or powder better?Please advise, thanks!I just lost my bunny Candy due to diarhoea & bloat

Just want to have thesse drugs ready just in case. Also, you are right, the vets here in Malaysia are not very rabbit savvy & don't have Bene Bact. Sad...