Any homeless Angoras in S.F. Bay Area?

Troller said:

When I was looking for Flemish originally I had similar issues. The rescues say they have Flemish, but they were mostly mixes of misidentified New Zealand's. All I wanted was a Flemish, which I know was selfish but that's what got me interested in rabbits in the first place so my first pet rabbit had to be that. ... I wish you luck in you Angora endeavors and hope you get equally as lucky as I did.

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If there's something about the personality or other characteristics of the Flemish (Giant?) that attracted you, then that was the rabbit for you. Bernese Mtn. Dogs are the only breed of dog I've ever had; I didn't grow up with dogs, just cats, so when we decided to add a dog to the household, I researched dogs--breeds, grooming, size, compatibility with cats, etc.--and narrowed it down to three breeds. Then, the Fates brought us a Berner through Rescue, and Berners it has been ever since.

Thank you for your good wishes re. Angora success.

This discussion and others I've had on another rabbit forum, plus my experiences searching online and in person, are all pointing in the same direction: Go to a show. Talk to breeders. I resisted this advice at first, hoping that--as in the case of my (lifetime) twenty or so cats and my (lifetime) nine foster and live-in Berners--I could find a suitable rabbit in rescue.

But, as OakRidgeRabbits pointed out, rabbit rescues don't seem to be run by breed-knowledgeable individuals, like cat and dog rescues are (e.g., Maine Coon Cat Rescue, Himalayan Cat Rescue, and all of the breed-specific dog rescue organizations), so my model simply doesn't apply. Alas. Maybe someday it will, but it doesn't right now.

You'll know where to find me on Saturday, September 14! In the meantime, I'll be hanging around both RabbitsOnline and the other rabbit forum I'm on, learning learning learning.

I think one reason there really aren't breed specific rabbit rescues is there are not many rabbit rescues. With dogs and cats, the SPCA, humane society and other places will take those species and there are usually many other rescues around. Breed rescues will work with these other shelters and rescues as well as take in owner surrenders. With rabbits, there tend to be few rabbit rescues and the SPCA or humane society might not deal with rabbits much. There are usually more rabbits needing help that there are spaces for them. As a rescue and the only rescue in an area, saying you only take one breed is tough.
Many rabbit rescues are not good about breed ID. I can understand some breeds are more rare or mixes can be hard to ID, but many breeds are easy enough to tell. Most rescue people aren't too interested in breeds and don't really care if a rabbit is one breed or another. They seem to go on colour patterns more than anything else and ignore what the actually breed might be. One example I see fairly often is rabbits with the silver marten colouring ID'd as the Silver Marten breed. The rabbit could be a 2 pound dwarf while the Silver Marten breed is around 10 pounds. I have also need a few lionheads ID'd as angoras when they are clearly not. While I think breed is not everything, it does matter to some people. It is the same with dogs, any medium sized dog with short fur and a blocky head is a pitbull mix.

^ Yeah, breed-specific rabbit rescues aren't common (I haven't heard of any, actually). But it's mainly because they're simply not needed, I think.

Rabbits are fantastic pets, but they are also a livestock animal. There are people who deny that, want to change the laws, and take away the right to use them as such. I understand that their intentions are good, but as it stands now, rabbits don't NEED to be sitting in a rescue. When a dog or cat is relinquished, unfortunately, there are only two options: rehome or euthanize. When a rabbit is relinquished, it's great to search for a rehoming option in the short term, but in the long term, it could also be used to feed someone's family who is in need - or even a cat or dog on a more natural diet. That's all I'll say here, because that topic is not permitted in detail on this forum. The only reason I mention it at all is because, luckily, rabbits do have an option beyond sitting in great numbers in rescue or shelter situations. There is no reason for "rabbit overpopulation."

Please understand that all of my rabbits are very beloved pets and I would never consider their lives to be disposable or of less value simply because they're classified as livestock. I'm only saying that, in the event that a rabbit is without a permanent home, they don't need to face the same uncertain future as dogs or cats. Their lives don't need to be "wasted" when time runs out.

For those who are rescuing, I think it's very important to be knowledgeable about rabbits in general. This includes different breeds. Like dogs or cats, every rabbit breed has a different personality, and many have special care needs as well. Some are much more high energy, some are laid back. Some have a tendency toward aggressive temperaments, others are rarely a problem. Some require special flooring or grooming, others can live on just about anything. Some can tolerate outdoor conditions, others do best inside.

There are also very specific dietary requirements. One of the breeds I raise are Holland Lops, and they're trouble and a half when it comes to balancing a diet! Babies are especially prone to soft, mushy droppings. Other breeds could be free fed all the time and not have an issue.

These are characteristics that breeders care about and have worked with and learned from for decades. I am positive there are fantastic rescue workers out there too with the same knowledge...I just wish it were more common. I often see breeds misclassified on Petfinder and places like that. As mentioned, they're called by color or markings.

Anyway. I absolutely respect the work that shelters and rescues put into helping animals. I know exactly how much work it is to care for all the fur babies - it's not a light load! I just wish there were more we could do to educate those places and, in turn, more pet owners would have a greater knowledge of their animals too.

ETA: Sorry, I just realized how far off the original topic this has become. I just like talking bunnies with people who understand. Feel free to say, "that's enough!" anytime. LOL

OakRidgeRabbits said:

^ Yeah, breed-specific rabbit rescues aren't common (I haven't heard of any, actually). But it's mainly because they're simply not needed, I think.

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Maybe. But in the second grooming shop I worked at, the local Maine Coon Cat rescue group frequently brought us incredibly filthy, matted Maine Coon Cats whose "people" hadn't had Clue #1 how to take care of them. These same people might have done just fine with a Domestic Shorthair, but the different care requirements (somewhat akin, I would guess, to the diff. between Angoras of whatever breed and, oh, Rexes of any size) were a real threat to the cat's health.

OakRidgeRabbits said:

Rabbits are fantastic pets, but they are also a livestock animal. There are people who deny that, want to change the laws, and take away the right to use them as such. I understand that their intentions are good, but as it stands now, rabbits don't NEED to be sitting in a rescue. When a dog or cat is relinquished, unfortunately, there are only two options: rehome or euthanize. When a rabbit is relinquished, it's great to search for a rehoming option in the short term, but in the long term, it could also be used to feed someone's family who is in need - or even a cat or dog on a more natural diet. That's all I'll say here, because that topic is not permitted in detail on this forum.

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I read the FAQs when I joined the other day and couldn't find this forum's policy on that topic. Where can I find the precise wording of the policy? thx (I have a cat w/IBD who may, at some time, need to go on a "fresh foods" diet. So far he's OK w/grain-free kibble and high-quality canned cat food, thank heavens.)

OakRidgeRabbits said:

The only reason I mention it at all is because, luckily, rabbits do have an option beyond sitting in great numbers in rescue or shelter situations. There is no reason for "rabbit overpopulation."

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Unless you're a rabbit "saved" by a rescue organization whose requirements for adopters are completely unrealistic or who simply won't bring a rabbit out of its cage for you to meet it.... :sigh:

OakRidgeRabbits said:

For those who are rescuing, I think it's very important to be knowledgeable about rabbits in general. This includes different breeds. Like dogs or cats, every rabbit breed has a different personality, and many have special care needs as well. Some are much more high energy, some are laid back. Some have a tendency toward aggressive temperaments, others are rarely a problem. Some require special flooring or grooming, others can live on just about anything. Some can tolerate outdoor conditions, others do best inside.

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Cat rescues began in the '80s with breed-specific rescue organizations, then branched into general cat-only rescues for "other" breeds. See "Whole Dog Journal," September 2013 issue, for an in-depth history on the development of dog (and cat) rescue organizations in the U.S.

OakRidgeRabbits said:

There are also very specific dietary requirements.

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Good to know; I haven't seen this anywhere else.

OakRidgeRabbits said:

These are characteristics that breeders care about and have worked with and learned from for decades. I am positive there are fantastic rescue workers out there too with the same knowledge...I just wish it were more common. I often see breeds misclassified on Petfinder and places like that. As mentioned, they're called by color or markings.

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Tee-hee. After exhausting Petfinder possibilities on rabbits last Friday, I decided to check into Berners--just in case, you know. ;-) Petfinder said there were 141 (!) Berners available, a pretty huge number. I looked at each and every one. There were fourteen (yes, 14) actual Berners. Some of the supposed "Bernese Mtn. Dogs" weighed around 30 lb; some of them were solid yellow Labrador Retrievers; some of them were probably Rottweiler crosses. I could have sworn in court that one of the "Berners" was a Corgi X Aussie Shepherd. These dogs weren't even tri-colored. It was just plain weird.

OakRidgeRabbits said:

Anyway. I absolutely respect the work that shelters and rescues put into helping animals. I know exactly how much work it is to care for all the fur babies - it's not a light load! I just wish there were more we could do to educate those places and, in turn, more pet owners would have a greater knowledge of their animals too.

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Which is why I volunteered to groom at the Marin Humane Society during Operation Petlift/Safe from the Storm for the Katrina animals and a while after that, and for a much more local (to me) humane society that pulled from high-kill shelters in the California Central Valley. A clean, fluffy dog or cat will be adopted much faster than a scruffy, oily one.

OakRidgeRabbits said:

ETA: Sorry, I just realized how far off the original topic this has become. I just like talking bunnies with people who understand. Feel free to say, "that's enough!" anytime. LOL

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Well, having found out that my original plan simply won't work, we seem to have moved on to a broader discussion involving Difficulties with Rescues/Difficulties Rescues Have. Fine by me; I've worked on several sides of the issue with cats/dogs: medical foster, volunteer groomer, training foster, adopter, etc.

Pleasr don't think that all rabbit rescues are like this. I got Polly from Clover Patch Sanctuary in Nashville tn and you just send in an electronic application with a pic of the habitat. Once your approved (not very long at all) you go to the rescue to meet the rabbit and they ask a few questions and then they let you have the rabbit. There are going to be good rescues and bad ones.

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It might have gone off topic but it is an interesting subject nonetheless so know you have an eager audience for the subject.

Don't be scared of breeders. They have a lot of intellect. I have bought from rescues before and they are lacking in knowledge.
Breeders can show you how to take proper care of the breed and they always have tips and tricks to share.

As for finding Angoras in California. You might have trouble being as it is very hot and Angoras are not fans of heat.
If only you were closer to Kansas I have one that would love you.

flemish giant said:

Pleasr don't think that all rabbit rescues are like this.

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True, but one of the two I visited is the national headquarters of a well-known rabbit rescue organization. It wasn't just some random local group, like the other one is. For a young woman not to have good skills in dealing with people is understandable--frustrating, as a potential adopter, but understandable--but for a national group to mis-identify a fuzzy bunny as an "Angora" is much harder to understand, much less condone.

flemish giant said:

Pleasr don't think that all rabbit rescues are like this. I got Polly from Clover Patch Sanctuary in Nashville tn and you just send in an electronic application with a pic of the habitat. Once your approved (not very long at all) you go to the rescue to meet the rabbit and they ask a few questions and then they let you have the rabbit. There are going to be good rescues and bad ones.

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Well, I Googled to find this particular rescue and again found rabbits mis-identified. Two were labeled as Americans. They not Americans, but Americans happen to be a breed that is considered "threatened" under The Livestock Conservancy. So if a rescue ever did come across an American, I would hope that it wouldn't immediately be spayed/neutered and sent to a pet home.

Another rabbit was labeled as an English Spot, as many broken black rabbits are. However, most broken black rabbits (including this one) are not English Spots.

I don't mean to imply that a person couldn't properly care for a rabbit of an unknown breed - that isn't the only thing that matters. In some cases, it doesn't matter at all. My point is that, while it's not the only thing, it is something.

Would you trust a breeder who wasn't sure which breed they were working with?

Just food for thought. I don't have the answer, but I think it's important to ask those hard questions and discuss it as a community.

OakRidgeRabbits said:

Well, I Googled to find this particular rescue and again found rabbits mis-identified. Two were labeled as Americans. They not Americans, but Americans happen to be a breed that is considered "threatened" under The Livestock Conservancy. So if a rescue ever did come across an American, I would hope that it wouldn't immediately be spayed/neutered and sent to a pet home.

Another rabbit was labeled as an English Spot, as many broken black rabbits are. However, most broken black rabbits (including this one) are not English Spots.

I don't mean to imply that a person couldn't properly care for a rabbit of an unknown breed - that isn't the only thing that matters. In some cases, it doesn't matter at all. My point is that, while it's not the only thing, it is something.

Would you trust a breeder who wasn't sure which breed they were working with?

Just food for thought. I don't have the answer, but I think it's important to ask those hard questions and discuss it as a community.

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Rescues are mostly for pets. If you want a specific breed you should be able to identify it yourself. Its just how most rescues are. They have way more important things to do than research the exact breed and most aren't pure breed either. You cant expect a rescue to Id a surrendered rabbit where the owners didn't know the breed or a rabbit that was let free and was running around its just not going to happen.

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flemish giant said:

Rescues are mostly for pets. If you want a specific breed you should be able to identify it yourself. Its just how most rescues are. They have way more important things to do than research the exact breed and most aren't pure breed either. You cant expect a rescue to Id a surrendered rabbit where the owners didn't know the breed or a rabbit that was let free and was running around its just not going to happen.

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What is more important than learning about the animals being rescued? And my question still remains - Would you trust a breeder who isn't sure which breed they're working with?

I don't mean to be argumentative, only to discuss. I think it is reasonable to expect those who are breeding/selling/giving away/adopting animals to be an authority on the animal and its care requirements. Even a bunny rescued off the street may have telling characteristics. If it doesn't, or if the person simply doesn't know, it's better to say "mixed breed" than give incorrect information.

A breeder should know 100%. Breeders should be able to provide pure breed rabbits BC people that usually buy from breeders want a rabbit for a specific reason. If I want a purebred angora for spinning wool I'm going to go to a reputable breeder and they better know what they have if I'm paying for the breed. Just like with my Flemish giant I got her BC I wanted a large rabbit and if it had been a mixed breed I would've been mad. Now with rescues youre not really going for a certain breed most of the time. You go to adopt a rabbit in need clearly for a pet. I mean Polly was marked as a french lop which she isn't but I don't care BC I got her as a pet. When you buy from a rescue they're all the same price and the price isn't dependent on breed. You are paying for a pet and the care the rescue took for the rabbit. I just don't think its logical to go to a rescue and expect a pure bred. You should look at the pic on pet finder decide if you like it and then meet it.

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flemish giant said:

I just don't think its logical to go to a rescue and expect a pure bred. You should look at the pic on pet finder decide if you like it and then meet it.

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Very true and that's easily acceptable, but then when I go to get the purebreed, pedigreed pet I want why must I also be subjected to negative reactions about where and how I got my pet from.

That statement is not against anyone in this thread, on this forum etc just me venting about my own experience. I occassionally visit shelter groups and donate but when I share tales of my beloved pets I get icy stares or just an air of disapproval. Must I feel guilty because I didn't adopt someone else's failed responsibility with the poor creature being a host of unknowns. I have great respect for those that do adopt and it's why I donate but am I bad person because I went a different route. And some of the rescues conduct themselves rather unfairly towards us non adopters. When I was bonding my rabbits I was following instructions set out by many of the socieites. When I had trouble bonding them I reached out to my local society who's website even states they can assist bonding rabbits who haven't been screened or adopted by them. A junior member was very helpful but he really didn't help and in fact made it worse despite me warning him, and his superior (a person lauded for their bonding ability) told me it most likely can't work because they didn't have a chance to choose one another. The fact that I followed their steps (which indicated a positive match) and their own website saying its not a necessity was completely dismissed and while I'm assuming here I don't think it so far fetched to believe its because I got mine from a breeder.

I know it sounds all negative up there but I did get good info from the societies and some help. I will also say that many breeders wouldn't work with me when they found out I wanted to bond my rabbit with another. However the breeder who I eventually got my Xena from was polite and she did cat and dog rescues. I wish that breeders and rescues didn't have such an antagonistic relationship because imagine a rescue that had the assistance of breeders to identify their animals, or rescues helping out breeders in safely selling to the pet market and so bypassing the terrible pet stores. I know there are bad breeders, rescues and pet stores out there but why must they be the shining examples that nullify those that do good work.

Of course while I'm on my soapbox I should mention how bad pet owners sour all the above organizations. I took a whole year to study my feelings on getting a pet then dedicated research to it to see if it was feasible in my life. The folks who buy the animals for others or on a whim without thinking of the consequences are adding to what I'm seeing as a divide between rescues and breeders. Making it so much more difficult for the responsible folks who are out there and love our pets.

Yeah, sorry for the threadjack its just this thread makes me think of this subject.

flemish giant said:

A breeder should know 100%. Breeders should be able to provide pure breed rabbits BC people that usually buy from breeders want a rabbit for a specific reason. If I want a purebred angora for spinning wool I'm going to go to a reputable breeder and they better know what they have if I'm paying for the breed. Just like with my Flemish giant I got her BC I wanted a large rabbit and if it had been a mixed breed I would've been mad.

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Agreed w/regard to responsible breeders.

flemish giant said:

Now with rescues youre not really going for a certain breed most of the time. You go to adopt a rabbit in need clearly for a pet. I mean Polly was marked as a french lop which she isn't but I don't care BC I got her as a pet. When you buy from a rescue they're all the same price and the price isn't dependent on breed. You are paying for a pet and the care the rescue took for the rabbit. I just don't think its logical to go to a rescue and expect a pure bred. You should look at the pic on pet finder decide if you like it and then meet it.

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This is where dog and cat rescues were at before breed-specific organizations began to develop in the late '80s. Prospective adopters originally had very low expectations: a dog was a dog--maybe small/medium/large, and maybe short- or long-haired. A cat was definitely *just* a cat. A family or individual went to the local animal control ("pound"), looked at the kennels/cages, and selected an animal. If none of the animals appealed, maybe the family/individual drove one town over or similar.

Then the situation began to change and, correspondingly, prospective adopters learned to look to different sources when they had a breed preference.

From the "Whole Dog Journal" (September 2013 issue), Heather Houlahan's article educates the reader on how to discriminate between legitimate and non-legitimate rescue organizations. Ms. Houlahan gives a good history of how dog (and, by extension, cat) rescue got to where it is today. Here is her first paragraph:

'In the 1980s, a new kind of dog adoption organization started to emerge. The lovers of specific breeds of dogs, alarmed and disgusted to see “their” dogs languishing in shelters, got together to pull dogs from shelters – and to step in where possible to prevent them from landing there. In some cases the rescue group was a branch of the breed club. The dogs were fostered in the private homes of people who were highly knowledgeable about the breed – often breeders, and usually long-time owners – who were well qualified to address breed-typical behavior and health issues.'

It's now the case that, for anyone wanting a specific breed of dog, the AKC's website links to breed club rescue committees. For cats, almost every TICA-recognized breed has an organized rescue committee (I just checked via Internet search on several well-known breeds, and could see others on later pages). Unfortunately, the "Rescue" page at www.tica.org is out of order. The point is that potential cat adopters' expectations have also been raised: if they have a specific breed of cat in mind, they can find it. Of course, Petfinder has been a godsend to both animals and people in finding perfect matches!

Rabbit rescue stands now in a position similar to those of dog and cat rescue 30 years ago, except that Petfinder now exists. Transport hasn't yet been overcome, though.... It may be that somewhere, soon, rabbit people with breed knowledge and expertise will decide to form a small, independent group for Breed A. It will be small at first; others will ask, "Why just one breed?" like they did when this trend started with dogs and cats. (I was living only with cats until 1998, so I was first aware of the cat rescue org's; I thought it was a terrific idea!)

Then, partisans of a second breed with special care requirements (diet? grooming? birthing? low level of excitement in the home?) will say, "Why can't we do that? Too many of 'our breed' rabbits aren't making it after they're adopted out. I keep hearing from my friends/on the Internet/at shows that about __% of their bunnies don't survive adoption because ____."

And so it will go. Eventually (and this may take several years, but who knows? given connectivity), the "general" rabbit rescues will indeed have "general" rabbits, and the breed-specific rescues will be the place to find a specific breed of rabbit.

It's just not that way right now, but I would be surprised for this way to continue. Ideally, of course, ARBA would lead the way, but the odds of that happening are probably as good as those for a rabbit to lay Easter eggs. The AKC had to be dragged, kicking and screaming, into listing rescue on its website, but now www.AKC.org looks as if the independent rescue committees were the AKC's idea in the first place!

Troller said:

I know there are bad breeders, rescues and pet stores out there but why must they be the shining examples that nullify those that do good work.

Of course while I'm on my soapbox I should mention how bad pet owners sour all the above organizations.

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Well said, on both counts. Not a threadjack in my book.

I think expecting breeders to be knowledgeable about the rabbits they're passing onto others, but not expecting rescues to know or care, is a double standard.

I understand that rescues don't always or often receive purebred rabbits - I'm not saying they need to, or that everyone wants a purebred. My problem is the false advertising and misinformation that is passed onto new pet owners. I don't understand why it "doesn't matter" if rescues do this, but that a breeder would be considered a backyard bunny mill if they did the same thing.

We need to hold everyone accountable for the animals they're passing on to others. Making up information isn't acceptable whether it's a breeder, rescue, or pet store.

OakRidgeRabbits said:

I think expecting breeders to be knowledgeable about the rabbits they're passing onto others, but not expecting rescues to know or care, is a double standard.

I understand that rescues don't always or often receive purebred rabbits - I'm not saying they need to, or that everyone wants a purebred. My problem is the false advertising and misinformation that is passed onto new pet owners. I don't understand why it "doesn't matter" if rescues do this, but that a breeder would be considered a backyard bunny mill if they did the same thing.

We need to hold everyone accountable for the animals they're passing on to others. Making up information isn't acceptable whether it's a breeder, rescue, or pet store.

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Breeders should be striving to make the breed better. Therefore need to know everything about a breed. Rescues aren't they're for rescueing animals and finding new homes. Rescues get sooo many rabbits they can know every single rabbit breed by arba standards.

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Rescues should know as much as they can about the rabbits they have. Breed or mix is just one part. People who want a pet rabbit from a rescue are usually looking more at personality and may want to know how the rabbit does with other rabbits, dogs, cats, kids or even if they could be free roam. The size of the rabbit can be more important than breed. If a rescue does have a rabbit or breed with extra care needs (such as grooming), they should know how to deal with that and pass correct info onto the adopter.

Breeders choose what breed or breeds they want to work with, rescues do not. Rescues get what they get. I would expect a breeder to know about the breed they have as they choose to have that breed. I would not expect a rescue to know everything about all the breeds they might have. Unless it is a breed specific rescue, rescues really have little say in what rabbits they take in.

Korr_and_Sophie said:

Rescues should know as much as they can about the rabbits they have. Breed or mix is just one part. People who want a pet rabbit from a rescue are usually looking more at personality and may want to know how the rabbit does with other rabbits, dogs, cats, kids or even if they could be free roam. The size of the rabbit can be more important than breed. If a rescue does have a rabbit or breed with extra care needs (such as grooming), they should know how to deal with that and pass correct info onto the adopter.

Breeders choose what breed or breeds they want to work with, rescues do not. Rescues get what they get. I would expect a breeder to know about the breed they have as they choose to have that breed. I would not expect a rescue to know everything about all the breeds they might have. Unless it is a breed specific rescue, rescues really have little say in what rabbits they take in.

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Agree 100%. Just like at clover patch there was a rabbit who didn't eat hay so it was sent to a foster home to learn and any rabbit that has special needs they list it.

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OakRidgeRabbits said:

What is more important than learning about the animals being rescued? And my question still remains - Would you trust a breeder who isn't sure which breed they're working with?

I don't mean to be argumentative, only to discuss. I think it is reasonable to expect those who are breeding/selling/giving away/adopting animals to be an authority on the animal and its care requirements. Even a bunny rescued off the street may have telling characteristics. If it doesn't, or if the person simply doesn't know, it's better to say "mixed breed" than give incorrect information.

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This is a very valid point, even if your just given a rabbit and you don't get to choose it, doesn't mean you should be able to give false information. I would rather go to the shelter and get a rabbit sold as a mixed breed with a certain breed in mind, then go to a shelter and expect to get an angora and it turns out to be a lionhead. Don't get me wrong I support shelters I think it is wonderful they want to give animals a second chance, but some put down breeders saying we are not knowledgeable when they are one giving out false information as well.

OakRidgeRabbits said:

I think expecting breeders to be knowledgeable about the rabbits they're passing onto others, but not expecting rescues to know or care, is a double standard.

I understand that rescues don't always or often receive purebred rabbits - I'm not saying they need to, or that everyone wants a purebred. My problem is the false advertising and misinformation that is passed onto new pet owners. I don't understand why it "doesn't matter" if rescues do this, but that a breeder would be considered a backyard bunny mill if they did the same thing.

We need to hold everyone accountable for the animals they're passing on to others. Making up information isn't acceptable whether it's a breeder, rescue, or pet store.

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This is a valid point. Everyoneshould be held to this.

flemish giant said:

Breeders should be striving to make the breed better. Therefore need to know everything about a breed. Rescues aren't they're for rescueing animals and finding new homes. Rescues get sooo many rabbits they can know every single rabbit breed by arba standards.

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Im not saying breeders shouldn't strive to make the breed better, but why put all of the 'you need to know this' on breeders shoulders? Everyone, including rescues and pet owners, should know about their breed. Each breed is different and some breeds are more prone to certain health issues then others.( rex furred rabbits are prone to sore hocks) I'm not saying the rescues need to guarantee that a certain rabbit is that breed, but when they call a broken black netherland dwarf an English Spot, the pet owner will be doing research on an English spot and they may begin to feed the rabbit more, so the rabbit becomes obese, then they think there are health problems with the rabbit because its not as big as that rabbit breed should be,so then they are spending tons of money taking it to the vet trying to figure out why the development in the rabbit isn't occurring and they are feeding the rabbits extra supplements trying to get it to grow and at the end of the day the only issue is mistaken case of breed. I have knew a person who did this with their rabbit they didn't take it to the vet right away but they started giving it extra supplements and went to the vet and the vet had to tell them it wasn't and English spot.

Everyone rescuing should have a general idea on the recognized breeds in arba. This doen't mean that the rabbit coming into the shelter needs to be a top show quality show rabbit and it has to have certain traits. My point is that rescues should try to look more into the breeds and breeders shouldn't be the only ones held to it, if they don't know the breed of their rabbits they are selling. ( If a breeder did this I would consider them very unknowledgeable and an unreputable breeder.)

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Sorry we are getting off topic now, with the angoras I would look into a breeder that is your best option. Like previously stated, mention something about spinning. Most angora breeders will not sell pets because of the high care levels. If you mention spinning the breeder will most likely help you find a rabbit that will have wool that will be good for spinning. Angoras in California may be harder to find because it is warmer weather but they still exist. If you are willing you can even consider traveling out of state to get an angora (I did this to pick up my Holland lops). I wish you luck on you search and I hope you find the perfect angora for spinning!