Tort color question

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WHHOOOOSSSH back to A level Genetics. Not fun. LOL

Jen
 
The babies are not agouti, so they are not orange, they are tort otter. From the two otters in the litter it shows daddy is not orange, but truely otter. Which means he has poor coloring for his genetics.

Orange:
A-B-C-D-ee

Black Tort Otter:
at-B-C-D-ee

Sire:
ataB-C-D-ee

We know he is ata because he has gave both self(shaded, non-agouti) and otter.

This is why breeders should learn color genetics, then the breeder you bought from may not had sold you something you did not need.

You have a Black Tortioseshell, Black? Tortioseshell Otter, and Broken Black? Tortioseshell Otter.

Do not quote me on them all being black based, I am just assuming.

Edit: To answer your question -

"well that dark one looks like a tort black.......so the other 2 would have to be orange?? since I can't have a tort and tort otter in the same litter right?"

No, you can not get agouti, otter and self all in the same litter if one of the parents is self. It means your buck is not agouti. To get all three colors one of the parents must be otter carrying self (ata) and the other agouti carrying self (Aa).

I hope I have not gave you headaches with all the genetics talk :)
 
I'm so confused..... When I read pam's post I understand it as there is no way you could get a tort black and a tort otter in the same litter. So the kits couldn't be tort and tort otter. I am either not reading something right or my brain isn't funtioning right now;)...... Help my brain understand;)
 
Orange x Tort

A_ x aa

The gene in question is the unknown gene of the orange. If it is indeed an orange, it must have at least 1 "A". (We'll assume it's a real orange A)

A tort is always homozygous aa.

If the pair is to produce torts in the litter, the orange would HAVE to be Aa.

If the pair is to produce tort otter in the litter, the orange would HAVE to be Aat.

But - the orange can't be both Aa and Aat, so can't throw both tort and tort otter when bred to a tort.

If the orange wereactually a tort otter itself (at a) -(we know it would have to have "a" to produce torts we see in the litter), then it could indeed produce both tort and tort otter in a litter when bred with a tort.


 
From the photo, he appears to be a tort otter. That would be odd for an AFL because otter is not an accepted variety - but not so odd for a fuzzy "holland" lop where otter is an accepted variety.



A little searching online indicated a good possibility of the buck actually being an otter. I found some HBB Hollands as well as HBB AFL otters.
 
I guess I'll see how these kits color looks in a few weeks..... I hope it is a tort and 2 oranges

is there anything to bred this buck to that would confirm for sure he is otter or orange? Since tort otter is hard to tell from orange it might be hard to know if these kits are orange or tort otter.
 
Breed the buck to an EE black to see if you get any agoutis in the litter. If he's actually an otter, you'll get a lot of otters popping up in litters. He's either A a or at a.
 
Blaze_Amita wrote:
someone ought ot publish a book on genetics, I've always just kind of guessed at the coloring
Click to expand...

There are a number of good books on rabbit coat color genetics that have been published!

Here's a comprehensive on-line listing of genotype http://www.thenaturetrail.com/Rabbit-Coat-Color-Chart.htm

I also have genotypes and photos on my sitenockrabbits.com

Glenna Huffmon has a number of books out http://www.debmark.com/rabbits/genetics.htm

Also some books on this site (Rabbit Production has some excellent genetics info as well) http://www.klubertanz.com/images/Klubertanz_Books46-48.pdf

You can also do a search for "rabbit genetics" on Amazon.com and find a lot more books.








 
here are a few updated pics of their colors.....



IMG_4371.jpg


IMG_4416.jpg


IMG_4426.jpg


IMG_4406.jpg
 
I know this is an old thread. After I read it I would like to add to the conversation. I raise American Fuzzy Lops and (did)raise Holland lops-which someone pointed out. It is offensive to me that it was insinuated that I crossed the hollands into the fuzzies which is where the otter gene came from. To set the record straight I do not cross the 2 breeds. There actually are Fuzzy Lop otters. The color has had a cod held on it for years now, we are on our 3rd person with the cod.
If Sheila or anyone on this group would have asked me to join in this thread I could have given you some insight as to Evans color. I have worked with the tan pattern gene almost as long as I have raised rabbits-14 years.
 
hbbuneez wrote:
I know this is an old thread. After I read it I would like to add to the conversation. I raise American Fuzzy Lops and (did)raise Holland lops-which someone pointed out. It is offensive to me that it was insinuated that I crossed the hollands into the fuzzies which is where the otter gene came from. To set the record straight I do not cross the 2 breeds. There actually are Fuzzy Lop otters. The color has had a cod held on it for years now, we are on our 3rd person with the cod.
If Sheila or anyone on this group would have asked me to join in this thread I could have given you some insight as to Evans color. I have worked with the tan pattern gene almost as long as I have raised rabbits-14 years.
Click to expand...
I have read through this thread three times and can't see what offended you - but I did want to say "welcome to the forum" - we have lots of fun here.

Its nice to hear that there is a COD on the color, etc - that is great you have a third person with it now.

And once again - welcome to the forum - hope you stay and participate!

Peg
 
This sentence by bunnybunbunb is one thing that I find offensive-
This is why breeders should learn color genetics, then the breeder you bought from may not had sold you something you did not need.
Why would you say that about a breeder when you dont even know what has transpired between the breeder and the buyer?

Also, Pam googled my rabbitry and discovered that I had fuzzy lops and otter holland lops. For what reason would you post that? Yes I did have otter hollands, no I never bred them into my fuzzies, in fact in 2005 I got rid of all my otter holland lops.

I guess I feel as tho some people on this forum were questioning my ethics. For the record I have spent alot of time with Sheila even before she bought Evan. I was trying to help her improve her fuzzies. Guess that wasnt worth mentioning by her. Deb
 
I went back and looked at Evans pedigree to refresh my memory why I had put him down as smutty orange. Here is how I came to the conclusion of him being a poor orange. His mom is an orange out of a blue otter and a broken chestnut, her sister was a tort otter. I bred Evans sister to a bc tort buck, I got a bc tort, and an orange(Evan). I bred to her a black to make sure she was an orange and she had 2 chestnuts. So she is Aa and Evans father is a bc tort so he is aa. No way Evan has a tan pattern gene. If I had been given a chance I could have very easily proven it. Deb
 
Thank you for your clarification - now to keep us from doing this.....

beatdead.gif


I am going to close this topic since it seems to have been dealt with.

Thanks to everyone for your input/speculation and to hbbuneez for coming along and clarifying any misunderstandings.

Now on to more bunnies to identify, ooh and aah at and all those other things we do here...
 
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