Terrifying growth on Joey's chin, painful malocclusion and squishy stool

[xKuchiki]

Hello..

Joey is having issues again, and this time not only with his teeth but with his feces, and he has a growth/abcess on his chin.

Issue #1
I did not notice the abcess until only a few days ago. I will take a picture of it soon but basically it is about an inch away from his chin and it is next to his jaw. It is really red and flaky, with the skin peeling and it is very dry. On and around it, the fur is flaking off in great numbers and so i brushed away the dead hair off of his chin so he wouldn't accidentally ingest it.

Issue 2#
Joey has TERRIBLE malocclusion and the vet has only suggested completely removing it once; I would much prefer having it completely removed instead of having Joeys teeth filed down every 2 weeks (the one incisor grows 5 - 7 centimeters in a few weeks...) as I cannot imagine how stressful that must be to him

Issue 3#

I believe this is related from Joey's malocclusion. Since Joey's teeth are so bad it makes it very difficult to eat and he rarely if ever will even come near his hay, meanwhile Theodore just has the time of his life gobbling down one flake of Timothy a week. Anyway; Joey's stool is very soft and squishy (or he may just be stepping in it, he isn't litter trained) and I'm constantly pulling it off the fleece in his cage.

I'm not sure if I should switch from the old blankets + fleece to some wood chips, change their food or switch their hay to say Oat Hay or whatever. Occasionally Joey will touch some fruit and vegetables so I'm going to buy a whole whack of vegetables tonight or tomorrow for them. I also am not sure whether or not I should separate the two. Any help would be golden..

 

[jamesedwardwaller]

sorry to hear your little guy has issues,,abscesses-are nasty/requiring as you know radiograph,for the proper treatment,,,i didn,t have to read much of your thread,cuz like they say been there done that,..now what you can do--prior to the dvm appt. is get water in him,,if he will chew/eat--hay-ok-,if not eating,,critical care,,vegy baby food,pumpkin,,be very careful syringing food,,small doses--give better chance fo swallowing/don,t want to suffocate the him/dead...the radiographs will determine the outcome,,abscess,s can range from benign,,to malignant/involving not only facial tissue,,but gums teeth,etc.--thats the ify part...because he is experiencing what sounds like a stage of gi stasis,,thats why i say hay and water--you can use an electic coffee bean grinder to grind up hay..ie.timothy/orchard grasses,,mix with water,,stir,syringe..this is labor intensive but it works.//.dental problems can be avoided with proper diet,,please review,my website http://jewaller.webs.com --sincerely james waller

 

[xKuchiki]

thank you..

He does have a proper diet and he gets lots of vegetables and such, but its hard for him to eat because his incisors shoot up before i even have a chance to see them.. also one of them grow in front of the other and it shoots out so it doesn't even have a chance to rub up against the top incisors.

 

[tamsin]

Is it just a problem with his front teeth or with his back teeth too? If it's just the front teeth and they are growing that fast then removing them could be a good option. There is the chance they will grow back though.

An abscess relating the jaw bone can be quite serious so he may need xrays to work out exactly what's going on with his teeth/jaw.

The pop issue is probably diet related. If he's not eating enough hay he won't be getting the right balance of foods. Will he eat grass? It needs introducing gradually but once you build up the quantity it is as good for the gut as hay and works well or wearing the teeth.

Introduce the new veg slowly don't go too crazy at once or they could make the sticky poop worse. Veg that is leafy greens will help more than fruit or root veg.. eg carrot tops are fine but limit the carrots.

The soft poop is probably caecel pellets which they wouldn't usually deposit in a particular spot hence they get everywhere.

Don't seperate them, they'll miss each others company

 

[Maureen Las]

A jaw abscess needs serious and aggressive antibiotics

Many vets believe that the abscess needs to be surgically removedhowever Randy has successfully treated rabbits with antibioticswithout surgical removal of the abscess

If there are infected teeth or infected tooth roots the teeth may need to be removed.
Often a combination of the drugs... oral Azithromycin ( Zithromax) and bicillin ( procaine and benzathine G penicillin ) in injection are used together.
Abscesses will grow very quickly ..
I will provide some of the library info

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=11791&forum_id=10



you may want to show your vet Marcy Moore's article on bicillin . Ideally more than 1 drug should be used and the drug protocol should continue for an extended period of time

let us know....

 

[TinysMom]

I have also successfully treated abscesses in the chin area with antibiotics - IF - they weren't attached to the jaw or bones in any way. It takes 2-4 weeks of treatments with the antibiotics but I find that the abscess goes away without ever needing to be drained.

I have had this happen in 3 or 4 bucks that accidentally scratched themselves too hard or something and started an abscess that way. I could tell that the abscess was not attached to the jaw because it would move totally around and wasn't attached to anything (I could feel it moving around on all sides as I felt it).

With that said - I do recommend a vet visit especially since he has teeth issues to begin with.

Please understand -I'm NOT a vet - and my nearest trustworthy vet for my rabbits is 180 miles one way...(although I do have one 70 miles away I consider using for some things).

I'm just trying to say that if the abscess is not in the jaw itself (the bone) - it may be able to be treated with antibiotics only...which I prefer since it is less invasive.

(One buck had the abscess come back about 6 months later - and then it never came back again - and the other bucks never had the abscess come back).

 

[xKuchiki]

Thank you for all your help -- I think it may be attached to the jaw because it did not seem to like to move around. I introduced him to grass last night and he refused to touch it, wouldn't touch his hay or anything, only his pellets and his water. I believe the hay thing might be because of his incisor growing out of control.

We have a vet app. at 12:00 today so I'm going to see about pulling the incisor and have an x-ray taken on his abcess. I will update ASAP.

 

[tamsin]

Just to clarify. With incisor removal, all the incisors are removed. Otherwise the others just start overgrowing as there is nothing to rub against.

I would try grass again after he's had his teeth sorted, if his mouth is sore at the moment and he's only eating pellets he might be willing to try it later.

 

[Maureen Las]

tamsin wrote:

Just to clarify. With incisor removal, all the incisors are removed. Otherwise the others just start overgrowing as there is nothing to rub against.

I would try grass again after he's had his teeth sorted, if his mouth is sore at the moment and he's only eating pellets he might be willing to try it later.

All the incisors may not be done in the first procedurebecause of the complication ofthe abscess...
the abscess and its immediate treatment is the priority issue now

 

[xKuchiki]

An update on Joey;

Okay so we have to bring Joey back in a few days so the vet can take an X-ray of the abcess whether or not to see if its attached to the bone or not. He also will take a sample of the abcess and send it off to a lab for analysis. He doesn't want to take the incisor out right now because he doesn't want to have to take it out if its not going to do anything, or if its the cause of the abcess. We're also going to see about getting his teeth 'floated' if he has any molar spurs or anything of the sort because that may also be whats causing the abcess but hes certain that it is related to his mouth area.

While we were there Dr. Hurdal filed his teeth down and we went to Kins Market and bought a whole whack of veggies for the two. Joey is eating them and enjoying them, and also seems interested in his hay (sort of...). The vet also reccomended trying different hay so I also have some oat hay mixed in with the timothy and he seems to like that too, so it seems like we're on the right track. He's also drinking a lot of his water. The vegetables I gave to Joey and Theodore was a mix of some fennel, the tiniest bit of kale, carrots, lettuce, snow peas and bok choi, and carrot tops.

EDIT :

Also I thought I might add that the vet has given us Chlor Palm 250 (chloramphenicol palmitate oral suspension) and I need to give 1/2 a cc to him every 12 hours until it runs out.

 

[Maureen Las]

Chlorampenical is a great antibiotic for walled off abscesses ..however I believe that usually it is teamed up with another antibiotic to hit "with the big Guns " (As Randy would say)
I do think your vet is on the right track with this...

 

[jamesedwardwaller]

i love it when a plan comes together....sincerely james waller

 

[tonyshuman]

I agree, another antibiotic like injectible pen G would be a good choice, but chlorpalm is a good one. It's good they're going to do an x-ray to determine if the bone has become involved in the abscess (infected bone is more difficult to treat). This makes me convinced that your vet probably knows what they're doing and will take good care of Joey. Feel free to run his future treatment ideas by us, though, to make sure.