snuffles/allergy?

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granmabunny

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Bunny's had snuffles since we got her. Antibiotics couldn't get rid of it completely. Other than snotty nose, hasn't seemed miserable so we kept her. Got to thinking about what's going on with her and noticed 2 days I forgot to put pine shavings in her poop tray and no snuffles. Could she have allergy? So for now just put water in tray to dilute pee (helps keep flies away). Bunny lives outside, so no problem there. What do you think?:?
 
Sometimes pine shavings can irritate the nose, especially if there mucous coming out is clear. If the snot is colored, I would suspect a pasturella infection. I would guess that your vet is not great, since "snuffles" is an outdated term that could mean any one of many upper respiratory infections. They need to take a swab of the mucous and culture it to see what kind of bacteria it is and determine which antibiotic is best to treat it. You were probably treating with an antibiotic that the bacteria was resistant to, or gradually gained resistance to.

I wouldn't put the pine shavings back in her tray as I'm not a fan of them at all. We had a discussion recently about them. Wood stove pellets are cheap and made of pine sawdust that has been dried in a kiln to get rid of the aromatic oils that can make pine harmful to the nose (and liver). They might be a better litter choice, and they definitely keep odor down better than nothing.
 
Hi,

Well...there is no such thing as "snuffles". It is a generic term that has come to mean just about any infection or problem a rabbit may have. Most likely it was intended to reflect what we now know as an Upper Respiratory Infection (URI). If any vet makes a serious diagnosis of "snuffles"....I would not consider him/her to be noton top of their game.

Now for your rabbit's concerns. Rabbits can certainly have sensitivities to allergens just as we do. We have one that seems to be allergic to the dust in his hay....and we have also seen him sneeze if his limited pellets are extra dusty. Since the usual response to allergic reactions are anti-histimines (most don't do so well in rabbits since they act as stimulents) or steroids (which will suppress the already delicate immune system)....this leads to some challenges in treating any allergy situations. Since drug protocols may present unacceptable risks, the best treatment for suspected allergies are to isolate the rabbit from these particular irritants. We routinely shake out hay and sift pellets with whatever kitchen implement will sift the dust from the pellets.

True infections should be diagnosed by culture and sensitivity which will identify the specific pathogen and what drug it is sensitive to. Just wondering what antibiotics were being used? If antibioitics didn't clear up the problem, either the drugs were prescribed by guessing and/or assuming a given infection and were ineffectiveor it isn't a true infection. Using drugs like this is why we are having so many problems with resistant bacteria (MRSA in humans is a prime example). This is a result of the over-prescribing of antibiotics by doctors (both animal and human) along with the general public not following thru on the entire course of drugs. Many vets do not culture (either due to client protests over costs or they think they already know what the problem is). And many use drugs such as Baytril or Sulfanomides such as Septra, Bactrim or TMZ....and these drugs are quickly becoming useless due to resistant bacteria. Ido not use these drugs any longer with domestic animals. The most common pathogen found in URIs in rabbits is a bacteria known as Pasteurella Multocida. It is a faculative anaerobic bacteria which means it can live with or without oxygen. It is quite challenging to treat and can never actually be totally eradicated. Currently my drug of choice, based on safety and effectiveness, is Azithromycin (Zithromax). Pasteurella is usually also sensitive to certain Penicillins such as Bicillin (Pen G), Convenia or Chloramphenicol. We have been able to effectively manage all our infections and our rabbits are symptom free.

Since it appears the condition is caused by an environmental issue, I would chart what you are using and see if the sneezing gets better or worse. Would it be possible to move the rabbit inside? Flies can cause some huge problems. If the discharge continues, I would have a vet culture the discharge to see what is in there. And keep in mind that several other issues such as dental or eye problems can also lead to nasal/respiratory issues.

Randy
 
When daughter got bunny from 4Her, she said Himalayans get snuffles off and on "all the time" especially when stressed and gave her a pack of Terramycin and some aromatic oil for her nose. Said no need to waste money on a doctor as doctor would say same thing, but now rethinking this logic of Himmies just being like this. Thanks for your input.
 
noticed the wording was symptom free not carrier free?
 
Unfortnately, things such as Terramycin are part of the reason we are in the problems we are today with resistant bacteria. And if a doctor gave junk meds like that.....maybe time for a reflection on his/her career choice. These types of drugs are so weak that the bacteria is never quite controlled. Bacteria has a type of immune system too....it doesn't want to die. When an incorrect antibiotic protocol is used, it may appear the problem is resolved....but in reality, it's not. The bacteria may be down, but not out. It will regroup and come back stronger. A prime example of this in the animal world is Baytril. Just a few years ago, this was the "go to" drug for dogs and rabbits (not so much for cats). It has been so misused over the years that it just isn't a viable treatment any longer. Same thing has happened in human medicine. Penicillin was used for anything....I can remember a time when you could call a doctor with any complaint and ask for....and get....penicillin. It was over used and misused and the bacteria adapted. Penicillin is rarely used in the modern world for human medicine any longer. Want more proof of how the misues of drugs has created "super bugs"? Look up MRSA.....it's a nasty staph infection that has become resistant to our drugs.

And it's unfortnate that many vets are still stuck in the old school way of thinking....don't know any that will resort to using Terramycin....but many still use Baytril even though it's common knowledge that this drug is quickly becoming obsolete. And some may think....why should I be concerned about resistant bacteria in animals? Why should I not properly treat an infection? Guess where most human illnesses come from? Animals. AIDS (which is technically a virus) seems to have come from primates. I have contracted a very difficult to treat staph infection from a rabbit that was infected by a cat attack. If we control these bacteriaat the animal level, it will make it more difficult for those bugs to jump to humans (the term is zoonosis). We are finding more resistant bacteria all the time.....and few new drugs in the pipeline. Fortunately some in the medical world see what is happening and things are hopefully changing. If everyone from the medical world to the individual citizen doesn't wake up and see what is happening....things are going to be difficult in the future as we see more "super bugs".

Don't mean to rant here.....and not slamming your comments....it's just I am on the front line of this resistance problem and see it all the time. Treating confirmed bacterial infections properly....be it animal or human....is critical to our health years from now.

Randy
 
there is much controversy re. use of drugs. Breeders treating whole herdsoften use an inexpensive drug in water like terramycin which is often not strong enough or dosed properly ( how can you dose properly by diluting in waterbottle...???)
If one can afford a good rabbit vet for a single pet (or a few)it is way better to have the infection treated with a good strong antibiotic after getting a culture and sensitivity done.

Your rabbit may just have allergies which would be great but if you think the symptoms are due to an upper respiratory infection and want to possibly rid the rabbit of the infection better to go to a rabbit saavy vet and get adequate treatment rather than to have reoccuring infectionusing an antibiotic that is only going to create a stronger nore resistant strain of bacteria in later years.
 
This too, troubles me. If she stays a carrier, even if symptom free, that puts other bunnies at risk. Hate to put her down, but do I have any other choice?
 

Most rabbits have latent infections in their bodies already just waiting for a lowered immune system so they can pop out.
Any rabbit can be a carrier
Are you a breeder?
 
No we're not breeders. Not even sure how we got as many bunnies as we did, just got to be known as the ones who would take bunnies off your hands. Granddaughter does show another himmie for 4H which is how we got the sick bunnie. First got Princess and when snuffles appeared, breeder said they get them "all the time" but then gave us another to take her place but didn't want Princess back (I guess not). She said just put her down, but I couldn't. New bunnie (can't remember her name, she's at granddaughter's) is a show stopper and won first place in appearance. But poor Princess, like I said symptoms go dormant sometimes but no one wants to hold her, except me, cause they don't want to spread germs to other bunnies. I just wash really well.
 
I hope that you get some more imput here. I have 8 indoor rabbits ; 7 of them have been here for a long time . I have had a rabbit of a bonded pair get a severe URI without the companion rabbit getting sick.

By the time the bun with the URI had showed symptoms the other buns would have been exposed anyway. No one else got sick . The sick one was elderly and her immune system was probably weak.

I did have a holland lop with recurring bouts of infection (unidentified bacteria) in his tear ducts. he was housed in the same room as 5 other buns and had a companion..no one got sick
ifI was to bring a shelter bun home, however, who is ill I will house the rabbit separately out of fear that whatever bacteria is present in the shelter bun has not yet been introduced to my rabbits.

I feel more comfortable keeping one that is not mine separate.
I would not put this bun down but I would try to aggressively treat the infection with strong antibiotics after attempting to identify the bacteria.

I would probably keep him separate during this time unless he has been living near your other rabbits; in that case they have been exposed anyway.
Having really good hygiene is a good idea anyway.

A pet with these kinds of issues can live a good life with you but breeders often need to think of the whole herd rather than the one rabbit who is a potential threat.

Maureen
 

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