Slightly complicated genetics question

[NZminilops]

Ok, out of interest I have been learning thebasics of rabbit genetics. I don't know too much, so I came on here fora bit of help.

From reading about seal and siamese sable, they seem to have the samedescription, but seal is darker - right? I don't even know if we haveseal in New Zealand, i think it's refered to as dark sable.

There is one rabbit in particlar I am studying, he's not my rabbit but I am looking at him.

He is listed as a sable (or siamese sable to you guys). Family tree goes:

Parents: dark sable + dark sable
Grandparents: medium sable + sable point, broken smoke pearl + seal point


I can give great grandparents also. Is it possible to get a sable andnot a seal from what I have listed? Given those colours, can you get asable from that at all? The other colours in his lines were a lot moresables, sable points and a broken blue.

I'm interested to know if he is indeed sable/siamese sable, as he seems to be quite dark.

 

[NZminilops]

if I got this right (please correct me if it'swrong), one parent is aaBBcchlcchlDdEE and the other isaaBBcchlcchlD_ee? That would make seal and smoke pearl and blue seal?Can someone fill in the gap?

Edited to add a picture.

 

[pamnock]

Shaded genetics can be comples. Youcan get sables from seals, but the more desired phenotype is generallyheterozygous shaded for sables. Dilute "dd"would besmoke pearl. A sable that is "ee" is sable point. Acchl dd ee is a blue point.

I have photos on my site under the Coat Colors of the Domestic Rabbit link

http://www.geocities.com/pamnock/

Pam

 

[NZminilops]

Thanks Pam, my brain is turning into a pretzel trying to work all this out!

I was trying to use http://mammarabbit.com/modules.php?name=Calculatoras well as filling in the gaps from his parentage but I just ended upconfusing myself even more. I'm not sure he's dark enough to be a seal,but if he's a medium sable how did that happen from two darksable/seals?

 

[TinysMom]

While Pam is on this topic....

I bred what the breeder called a "dark siamese sable" (but it doesn'tlook like a seal and this breeder is known for culling seals)...to asable point.

I got two sable points...and what I think is a seal.

Is there such a thing here in the states as "dark siamese sable"? Ismama a seal? If mama is a seal - would a breeding to a sable point giveme the sable points (I guess it could).

But also....I really like this seal baby - if I understand correctly, Ican breed her to a REW and get siamese sables - is that correct?

Peg

 

[pamnock]

pamnock wrote:

Shaded genetics can be comples.

Geeze - it's so "complex" that I can't even spell it LOL

Sables are a variety that have a wide range of shading (light, medium and dark).

To further complicate things, a seal can be a cchd (chin genotype).

It is said that the true seals have cocoa undercolor and cocoa coloredfootpads, however, I've seen rabbits that fit a seal phenotype thatdon't have the cocoa undercolor (it's grayish like the sables).

Yes Peg - breeding a seal to a REW should result in some nicely colored sables.

Pam

 

[NZminilops]

Very interesting...so what make a light, medium or dark sable? What part of the genes?

 

[pamnock]

minilops wrote:

Very interesting...so what make a light, medium or darksable? What part of the genes?

Modifiers control the intensity of the color and affect the darkness ofthe shading, however sable can also be produced by various combinationsof genes such as cchl cchl, cchl ch, or cchlc. Sable isn't a color that breeds verytrue, so it can be difficult to get just the right shading (medium isdesire in the US).

Pam