No Pellets now no carrots

[Amy27]

I first want to say I love my vet. I really trust her. She is a rabbit savy vet and recommended by the House Rabit Society. My one rabbit Chase had a huge bladder stone removed about a month ago. I just got the results of the stone back today and it was 100% calcium. I was surprised because about 2 years ago the vet had me stop feeding my rabbits pellets because they were over wieght. She stated they really didn't need them as rabbits in the wild didn't eat them. I was to feed unlimited hay and vegetables. I feed timothy hay. None of the things I feed them are high in calcium. When I spoke with her today she wants me to cut out carrots. Only greens and timothy hay. I said what about carrots every few days and she stated she didn't recommend it. I asked if it would affect my other rabbit as they live together and eat the same foods. She stated it wouldn't. I trust her but I am kind of concerned to be feeding only greens and hay. Does anyone know if this would still be a healthy diet for a rabbit? She also recommended not just washing the greens but to soak them in water for 30 minutes so they are getting as much water as possible. Since it could be diet related, even though I don't see how. I am going to take my other rabbit to be checked in a couple weeks.

 

[Happi Bun]

I've heard that if you feed various veggies often enough, they don't need to be fed pellets. I also known of a few rabbits like wont eat pellets so they get lots of veggies and hay.

 

[Amy27]

Thanks Happi Bun. It is nice to know other people have successfully fed hay and vegetables only.

I was reading online and it seems greens are very high in calcium. Even higher then carrots. I don't want my rabbit to get another stone. I am afraid now that maybe the change in her diet won't work. I am so confused on what to do to prevent this from happening to my bun again.

 

[Maureen Las]

What exactly does the vet say about carrots?

Does she say they shouldn't be fed carrots because of being high in sugar or high in calcium?

There is a lot of controversey over the ideathat high calcium diets will contribute to sludgeor stones
Some rabbits don't have issues with it others do
it's better to feed a lower calcium diet but it is true that many veggies are very high in calcium and I don't think carrots are?
If the diet she suggested is healthy then why did your rabbit develop a huge kidney stone?
probably genetically prone to it....
I think diet and genetics both play a factor ..but not just diet

http://carrotcafe.com/f/calevel.html

 

[Amy27]

The vet didn't come out and say carrots are high in calcium but from our conversatin that is what I thought she meant. When she told me what the stone was made of she asked what I was feeding her. When I told her she then said to stop feeding carrots. I assumed then that they must be high in calcium. But I had found the site you linked and was like what???

I have read a lot and I have found that sometimes stones do not always mean a high calcium diet. But if it isn't the diet I don't know what else to do to prevent it from happening again. My bun is young, about 4 years old. I would hate to think this is something that she will have happen to her throughout her whole life.

I also agree that if the diet she had given me was healthy how did she get a stone. And then when I talked to her she said what pellets are you feeding and I said you took them off pellets like 2 years ago.

I guess if it is genetics the only thing I can do is try to push water. I tried pedialyte but my rabbit wouldn't even try the water. If I put a water bowl in front of her she takes her nose and pushes it back. It is actually cute but not helping the situation.

I guess if my other rabbit is fine I can assume it is genetics or not drinking enough water. This was such a traumatic experience for my bun I want to prevent it from happening again.

I was kind of thinking since I feed a low calcium diet already that the stone results would come back with something I didn't have to really worry about. Though any results I would have to do something about. I was trying to think hopeful and the vet popped my bubble that this might be something easy to deal with and something I would never have to deal with again. I didn't even think to ask her if I should have her kidney's tested or how often she should be tested to see if she is developing a new stone.

 

[Maureen Las]

I think that you should look at the green veggies that you are feeding and eliminate the higher calcium ones.
Carrots have no calcium (correct me if I'm wrong) so I think that your vet didn't know what to tell you to eliminate in the diet: carrots are not a good food though from the simple fact that they are high in sugar.

There are more articles in the library that will help you but here is one.

http://www.rabbit.org/journal/3-5/calcium.html

I personally think that a small amount of a high quality timothy pellet in a rabbit's diet is fine. Provides trace vitamins and minerals.

There are many vets who think as yours does so she isn't 'wrong" but the rabbit world is slowly reversing a bit on the "No pellet" issue.

When Susan Brown addressed this issue years ago she was talking about the unhealthy life of the rabbit who eats only pellets .

pellets have advanced over the years and a good timothypellet is really not unhealthy anymore in limited quantity

 

[NorthernAutumn]

Just my .02, but I remember one of my professor's cats having major kidney/bladder challenges due to hard water.
Cat needed its own water filter to stay alive, because it couldn't drink the well water.

I would see if filtered water would be advisable. Wouldn't hurt to rule out hard water effects anyway (which are caused by the high calcium content)
Here's an explanation of hard water: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_water

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080319060404AArXAS0
This is one about cats... similar scenario.

As calcium is a base cation, and urine tends to be acidic, it may be an idea to test for pH of the rabbit piddle. They are vegetarian, so the pH will be slightly higher than ours:
http://www.rnceus.com/ua/uaph.html

I'm just hypothesizing here, based on chemistry and anecdotal information. However, distilled water probably wouldn't hurt: might even prevent

 

[Amy27]

Thank you everyone for responding.

Angieluv, parsley and cilantro are their favs. I see that parsley is high but I can't find a site about cilantro yet. Though I won't stop looking. I agree that my vet wasn't sure what to tell me. I will see her in a couple weeks when they check my other rabbit. I am not sure what to tell her except that I am not comfortable with what she told me. I am afraid it will still happen again. I will eliminate all high calcium greens. I feel bad but I think parsley will have to go.

NorthernAutumn, I know I don't have what they consider hard water, I don't have a well and live in the city. But I will be going to buy a filter ASAP. It surely wouldn't hurt. I will eliminate all the calcium I can. I will do anything at this point to try and pervent this from happening again.My water issomething I did not think about. Thanks for giving me those great links and the great idea.

Again thanks everyone.

 

[NorthernAutumn]

Amy, it may be possible that you have calcium or other base cation buildup in the pipes of your apt building or home. You may not have hard water from the city itself, but it is possible for certain metals to react to generate calcium carbonates and other similar compounds. Presumably, attaching a water filter would repair that situation.
6 of one, half a dozen of the other...

 

[Pipp]

Cilantro is pretty low calcium and related properties, so it's pretty safe. And I'm sure the odd sprig of flat leaf parsley won't hurt.

The whole calcium thing is a quagmire. It's more than calcium content that affects the way the calcium reacts -- sodium, magnesium, oxalates, proteins and I'm sure other things as well enter into the equation. And hay or veggies grown in one area will have very different content levels than another. It's almost impossible to do meaningful measurements.

Did your bunny ever have sludge issues? Was her pee white before she developed the stone?

I don't know the thought behind restricting carrots, but if your rabbit is at all overweight, it may not a bad thing I guess. (Poor bunny).

What may also help is cranberry juice. Have you asked about that? I know cranberry can help prevent bladder infections and make bunnies more comfortable by discouraging bacteria from sticking to the bladder wall. I think it may also help dissolve crystals, but don't quote me on that.

I'd keep a crock flavored with unsweetened cranberry juice or extract in addition to plain filtered water. (Good call re: filtering the water, btw). And/or try whole, fresh cranberries as a treat. (My guys love 'em).

Soaking the veggies is great advice. You may also want to try feeding her grass, which is essentially 'wet hay'.

Hope she stays well!


sas :clover:

 

[Amy27]

I am going to buy a water filter this weekend. It can't hurt. I do have a filter on my fridge but I wonder if that filters as well as one you put on your kitchen sink. I think just to be safe I will go buy one for my kitchen sink.

My bunny never had any sludge issues that I know about. I did see white pee in the litter box but never thought much about it. The urine was white even when she had the stone. I don't know if she had sludge before developing the stone.

I will ask the vet about cranberry juice. I think it will also help in getting her to drink more water. She doesn't drink a lot. I think she is drinking more but it is hard to tell with 2 rabbits living together. I will also try to give some cranberries as treats.

For people who feed grass exactly how do you do it. I have bought grass from the pet store and in two days it is gone. Do you take a flower planter and put grass seed in it? I have never tried to grow my own grass inside. Is any glass seed safe?

Thanks Amy