Megacolon/Stasis/Sub-Qs...When to Take Action?

[Jenk]

I've been trying to remain calm, but I can't deny the fact that my megacolon bun has been producing less and smaller-than-normal fecals (than usual) for nearly a week now. (Her fecals are generally HUGE in size and very odd in shape and/or moisture content.)

She's still eating/drinking normally, but I know that her body's not releasing the same amount that it's taking in, which now has me worried. And, seriously, I cannot continue taking her to the vet on a 1-3 month basis. This is ridiculous, tiresome and too expensive....

Questions:

1) Even if she's drinking a good amount of water, should I consider trying sub-Qs to see if starts passing more?

2) Someone once recommended that I give her about 4 oz. of black ("regular") tea. (She's about 4.4 lbs.) This person said that the tannins in the tea soothe the gut, while the caffeine in it stimulates it to move. Any thoughts on this method for helping stasis?

PS: I try to groom her daily (or at least massage/pluck off excess fur); she's been getting a lot of exercise in the evening for the past week now, as well. Her diet still consists mainly of hay, though I've been working in parsley and one (yes, one) Oxbow BB/T pellet for the past two days'.

Thank you,

Jenk

 

[polly]

are they small or are they more normal seeing as you feel they are usually "huge" maybe they are just more normal rather than a problem as such especially if they are drinking aplentyof water and eating.

 

[tonyshuman]

I really don't know. Poor girlie. Is the majority of her diet hay then? It doesn't make a lot of sense that she won't drink enough water, to me. Maybe you could offer water in an additional source. I prefer a bowl myself (bottles are too noisy) but I put up a bottle and Tony just loves it. Muffin, on the other hand, prefers the bowl. I didn't even know that Tony would prefer a bottle until I put it up. I know you have a lot of bad luck with their GI tracts. Maybe feeding them a diet like Angela's megacolon bunny Fey would be a good idea?

 

[Jenk]

polly wrote:

are they small or are they more normal seeing as you feel they are usually "huge" maybe they are just more normal rather than a problem as such especially if they are drinking aplentyof water and eating.

Some are just small(er), as in more normal-sized. But she's also passing some tiny, broken-looking pieces.

I think that my best bet is to still sit tight, as long as: 1) she's still eating, drinking, active; and 2) she's still passing at least some normal-to-large-sized fecals. (If they all become tiny, then I need to truly consider sub-Qs.)

 

[Jenk]

tonyshuman wrote:

Is the majority of her diet hay then?

Yes, though I've very slowly re-introduced parsley to her diet. A few days' ago, I started slightly increasing the amount fed.

I've also started her on Oxbow BB/T a few days' ago. I'm literally going as slowly as you possibly can with this, feeding her two pellets/day for at least the first week to how her body reacts to them (if at all). I hope to get her up to at least 1 Tbsp./day, if possible; if not, I'll feed her whichever amount her body can seem to tolerate.

It doesn't make a lot of sense that she won't drink enough water, to me. Maybe you could offer water in an additional source. I prefer a bowl myself (bottles are too noisy) but I put up a bottle and Tony just loves it.

She definitely drinks enough water; it just seems that her body misappropriates it somehow. She can drink about 200 mL/day (from her crock) and still have fairly dry fecals. I'm hoping that the increase in parsley (and possibly other herbs), as well as the Oxbow pellets, will help balance things more (rather than make her system go haywire :?).

I know you have a lot of bad luck with their GI tracts. Maybe feeding them a diet like Angela's megacolon bunny Fey would be a good idea?

I'm not even certain exactly what (and what amounts) that Angela feeds Fey. I know that she's mentioned greens and Oxbow BB/T pellets in limited amounts; that's all I recall.

 

[tonyshuman]

Wow that does sound like a lot of water. I would think the fecals would stay dry, it's just to keep them moving that you need the water. I would think excess water helps lubricate the GI tract and is removed in the final bit of the colon to be excreted in the urine. At least that's how it works for humans, I think. A mostly hay diet with a variety of hay and plenty of water should be good.

I pulled this from an old thread that just recently got resurrected:

"-Fey (3.5 lbs), dwarf hotot with megacolon/chronic GI issues with fairly severe sensitivity to high protein foods, hard to keep weight on. 1 tablespoon pellets and 1.5 cups veggies twice a day. Once a day she gets 1/4 teaspoon conditioning mix with flax seeds, sunflower seeds, and a smidge of rolled oats. It helps a lot! Absolutely no alfalfa or similar treats ever!!!" -naturestee in http://rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=32329&forum_id=48&page=1

 

[Jenk]

tonyshuman wrote:

I pulled this from an old thread that just recently got resurrected:

"-Fey (3.5 lbs), dwarf hotot with megacolon/chronic GI issues with fairly severe sensitivity to high protein foods, hard to keep weight on. 1 tablespoon pellets and 1.5 cups veggies twice a day. Once a day she gets 1/4 teaspoon conditioning mix with flax seeds, sunflower seeds, and a smidge of rolled oats. It helps a lot! Absolutely no alfalfa or similar treats ever!!!" -naturestee in http://rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=32329&forum_id=48&page=1

You are awesome for finding this info./thread! Mind you, I don't know that I could get Zoe eating that many greens (even if just herbs) on a daily basis; but it's my goal to get her eating something other than just parsley.

 

[naturestee]

LOL, there's my Fey's diet!

I've never heard of giving black tea, although caffeine in some forms can be a bit of a laxative (especially in coffee for me, yay IBS). But there are herbs that you can feed her fresh or dry and see if they help. Parsley is usually well tolerated and is supposed to have a mild calming effect. Most plants in the mint family (mint, basil, rosemary, etc) are really good for soothing tummies. I personally use herbal mint tea for myself. If Fey isdoing poorlyI'll go hunt down some decent-looking fresh mint or basil. Asian grocery stores are good for that.

Also, something Pamnock has mentioned to me is the use of Vitamin E to soothe intestinal inflammation. A little bit of Nutrical is all you need, however Fey hates it and will wipe it off on anything she can instead of licking it off her paw. Sunflower seeds are a natural source of Vitamin E and that's part of the reason why Fey gets a tiny bit daily.

The other reason I give that mix to Fey is it's really hard to keep weight on her, especially when she's molting like she is now.

 

[Jenk]

naturestee wrote:

I've never heard of giving black tea, although caffeine in some forms can be a bit of a laxative (especially in coffee for me, yay IBS).

I've not been diagnosed with IBS and don't believe that I officially have it, but coffee (when drank too quickly) has the same effect on me.

...There are herbs that you can feed her fresh or dry and see if they help. Parsley is usually well tolerated and is supposed to have a mild calming effect. Most plants in the mint family (mint, basil, rosemary, etc) are really good for soothing tummies. I personally use herbal mint tea for myself.

I've been slowly increasing parsley in her diet. I've already decided that she'll never again get any form of greens outside of herbs. She seemedto tolerate mint and cilantro okay in the past; I hope to get her back on them, as well (along with the Oxbow BB/T that I'm slowly increasing in her diet.

Like you, I use mint tea for tummy upsets. (I've tried offering it to Zoe in the past; it was a no-go, as she turned her nose up at it. )

...Something Pamnock has mentioned to me is the use of Vitamin E to soothe intestinal inflammation. A little bit of Nutrical is all you need....

I've asked two rabbit-savvy vets about Vitamins C and E. One said that she couldn't find any source material to back the idea that either one helped in the case of megacolon-like symptoms. But my current vet did say that Vit. C is supposed to help with inflammation and suggested that I could syringe-feed Zoe a certain amount daily to see if helps whenever she gets slick fecals. (I've not yet tried it.)

The other reason I give that mix to Fey is it's really hard to keep weight on her, especially when she's molting like she is now.

Poor Fey... :hug:

That's the one thing (besides a lack of true diarrhea) that makes me suspect that Zoe doesn't have true megacolon: She retains a solid weight (even when eating hay only for weeks at a time).

 

[Maureen Las]

Most vets know nothing about herbs, or vitamins in treating illness except vets trained in alternative therapies.

I saw a vet near Chicago who used both western and alternative methods. I did not have a good experience with him but the rabbit needed dental work plain and simple.

One of our members sees him now and is having good success with her rabbit who had mysteriously lost weight.
it is Ness Wellness Center in Lisle ill. or

You can learn much of this on your own. as Angela (naturestee)has.

Both Kathy Smith books cover alternative approaches to some problems.

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=11898&forum_id=10

 

[BethM]

Jenk wrote:

I've been slowly increasing parsley in her diet. I've already decided that she'll never again get any form of greens outside of herbs. She seemedto tolerate mint and cilantro okay in the past; I hope to get her back on them, as well (along with the Oxbow BB/T that I'm slowly increasing in her diet.

Like you, I use mint tea for tummy upsets. (I've tried offering it to Zoe in the past; it was a no-go, as she turned her nose up at it. )

I don't have any medical info to add here, unfortunately.

However, none of my bunnies would eat herbs (other than parsley and cilantro) in the past. Last summer, I gave it another go, just on a whim, and they all gobbled them up. I grow basil, mint, rosemary, and thyme in pots on my deck in the summer, because I like to cook with fresh herbs but can't always use them up. Last summer I just snuck a bit (one sprig, broken into a few small pieces) into their salads and, after turning their noses up a few times, they eventually started eating the herbs and now get excited when they get them.

If there's an herb that would be beneficial, I'd go ahead and keep trying. (Unless Zoe's just super picky, she might never eat it.)

 

[Jenk]

BethM wrote:

If there's an herb that would be beneficial, I'd go ahead and keep trying. (Unless Zoe's just super picky, she might never eat it.)

Actually, Zoe's a bit of a chow hound. That works in my favor when I'd like her to try something new (which isn't very often, I must admit). But it also makes me feel guilty when I deny her something to allow her gut to calm down. (In her excitement over food that I'm carrying--even if for Emma only--Zoe dances in circles likea lil' circus dog. It's cute, but I hate feeling guilty about denying her greens at times.)

 

[naturestee]

Yup, most vets know little about non-medicine remedies unless they specifically set out to learn about it. Kind of like vets and how much/little they know about rabbits.

My vets recommend fresh parsley and mintas good first veggies, rabbits entering or recovering from stasis, and other gut issues. I haven't heard any mention of treating animals with vitamin supplements aside from diagnosed vitamin deficiency issues or fish/flax oil for mild skin issues.