Cloudy urine, UTI or bladder/kidney stones?

[Rhea92]

Hello everyone!

I have a question about cloudy urine and UTI or bladder/kidney stones if anyone has experience?

My 9 yr old senior male neutered lionhead, Rory, has been having thick cloudy urine that Ive been noticing the last while.

He is on unlimited timothy hay and about 40 pellets (vet advised because underweight and has been losing weight the last few months) and wet celery daily (vet advised no dark greens). Also, 1 oxbow natures science joint support cookie and a max of 1 treat/day. 2 water bowls that get refreshed morning/night.

He is also on 1 week of Sulcrate for a possible stomach ulcer after a painful/lethargic reaction to meloxicam.

He isnt getting a lot of diet calcium and he is drinking water, he doesnt seem to strain or clack teeth while peeing. His right side abdomen near his hind right leg often feels full/bloated when i massage him. He likely has arthritis in his front paws and just recently got a low entry litter box.

Any thoughts or advice? If it sounds like UTI or bladder/kidney problems, what could help?

 

[JBun]

Is it just whitish and cloudy, but the consistency of normal urine? Or is it thick and pasty, gel like, and/or a cloudy beige color? Has he been treated with antibiotics?

https://wabbitwiki.com/wiki/Urine
If there is abdominal swelling, you'll need to have your vet investigate that. There are several possibilities, some very serious. You'd likely need xrays or an ultrasound. Possibly a blood test.

 

[Rhea92]

Is it just whitish and cloudy, but the consistency of normal urine? Or is it thick and pasty, gel like, and/or a cloudy beige color? Has he been treated with antibiotics?

https://wabbitwiki.com/wiki/Urine
If there is abdominal swelling, you'll need to have your vet investigate that. There are several possibilities, some very serious. You'd likely need xrays or an ultrasound. Possibly a blood test.

JBun, thank you! His urine is cloudy yellow/biege (i attached recent pic), i use paper bedding then pee pads under that to be soft on his feet so most of his pee gets absorbed, i can only tell by what is caught on the hay... It tries to stay one shape and seems thick almost like watery gel if i move the hay around. When i touch it with paper towel it gets absorbed like liquid, so not a paste

He was recently on antibiotics (Baytril) for sorehock spot on his front left paw but had to stop after a few days because it suppressed his appetite and he was barely eating/drinking and very lethargic and in pain, had to do a few feedings of critical care

He got a blood analysis last month during his full anual exam and vet said everything looked normal, I'll ask about xray or ultrasound if it could be something serious!

 

[JBun]

The color looks pretty normal to me. Beige from a UTI, is very brownish beige and cloudy. You can see an example in one of the pictures in the link above. Not to say that your bun might not still have a UTI or bladder sludge.

Are you certain it's thick and gel like? Normally when it's this thickened consistency, it won't readily absorb into anything but sits on the surface where it will dry into a thick sticky consistency. I wouldn't expect gelled urine to absorb into a paper towel very well.

Provided the urine isn't reacting with something in the litter pan and gelling up there (happened to an RO member once), if it is coming out gel like, I think that has to do with calcium crystals, though I'm not sure what causes it to come out gel like instead of the typical pasty or gritty consistency when dealing with bladder sludge.

Bladder sludge and stones

You could try just putting down a white pee pad in the litter tray, to get a better look at the color and consistency of the urine. It will also help you see if there are any spots of blood in the urine.

You could also try and collect a clean urine sample for your vet to test, by using a freshly washed and cleaned empty litter pan, if your bun will oblige you and pee in it. It needs to be refrigerated and brought to the vet same or next day if you manage to get it. Or ask your vet how best to get a sample. Maybe your vet will want to get the sample themselves.

If your bun has a UTI in addition to having bladder sludge, which seems likely, since your bun doesn't react well to baytril, the antibiotic smz/tmp might be an option to try. I've given it to rabbits before, and it seems much better tolerated than baytril, especially taste wise. But this is provided a rabbit doesn't have a sulfa allergy.

If your bun does have bladder sludge, his diet is already low calcium. The only changes I can think of are changing water if you have hard water with calcium in it. And maybe trying a urinary support supplement. Oxbow and Sherwood both have one. I like the look of the sherwood one best, though I haven't actually tried it to see if it works. You could also just try adding cranberry yourself instead of a supplement. Also, your vet can prescribe things like sub q fluids, to help increase urination and help keep the bladder flushed out.

If your bun does truly have something abnormally swollen in the abdomen and it's not just some normal part of the digestive tract or bladder, then you definitely should get it checked out by your vet. There's especially a concern when it's an older rabbit. Hopefully it's not anything other than this urine issue, and your vet can help get this figured out.

 

[Nancy McClelland]

Calcium will leave a white area when it has dried--what I saw looked normal. I hate to mention it, but you may be seeing age related problems as he is at the extreme area of being an "Elder" bun. We wish you both good luck.

 

[Rhea92]

The color looks pretty normal to me. Beige from a UTI, is very brownish beige and cloudy. You can see an example in one of the pictures in the link above. Not to say that your bun might not still have a UTI or bladder sludge.

Are you certain it's thick and gel like? Normally when it's this thickened consistency, it won't readily absorb into anything but sits on the surface where it will dry into a thick sticky consistency. I wouldn't expect gelled urine to absorb into a paper towel very well.

Provided the urine isn't reacting with something in the litter pan and gelling up there (happened to an RO member once), if it is coming out gel like, I think that has to do with calcium crystals, though I'm not sure what causes it to come out gel like instead of the typical pasty or gritty consistency when dealing with bladder sludge.

Bladder sludge and stones

You could try just putting down a white pee pad in the litter tray, to get a better look at the color and consistency of the urine. It will also help you see if there are any spots of blood in the urine.

You could also try and collect a clean urine sample for your vet to test, by using a freshly washed and cleaned empty litter pan, if your bun will oblige you and pee in it. It needs to be refrigerated and brought to the vet same or next day if you manage to get it. Or ask your vet how best to get a sample. Maybe your vet will want to get the sample themselves.

If your bun has a UTI in addition to having bladder sludge, which seems likely, since your bun doesn't react well to baytril, the antibiotic smz/tmp might be an option to try. I've given it to rabbits before, and it seems much better tolerated than baytril, especially taste wise. But this is provided a rabbit doesn't have a sulfa allergy.

If your bun does have bladder sludge, his diet is already low calcium. The only changes I can think of are changing water if you have hard water with calcium in it. And maybe trying a urinary support supplement. Oxbow and Sherwood both have one. I like the look of the sherwood one best, though I haven't actually tried it to see if it works. You could also just try adding cranberry yourself instead of a supplement. Also, your vet can prescribe things like sub q fluids, to help increase urination and help keep the bladder flushed out.

If your bun does truly have something abnormally swollen in the abdomen and it's not just some normal part of the digestive tract or bladder, then you definitely should get it checked out by your vet. There's especially a concern when it's an older rabbit. Hopefully it's not anything other than this urine issue, and your vet can help get this figured out.

Thank you, thats all wonderful information! Its not a true gel consistency, more of a watery opaque thick blob, it definitly could be reacting to his bedding or something... I had him pee on hay and a plain pee pad and havent seen it dry into a paste that sits in the surface so thats a relief not bladder sludge!

I didn't consider the water he's drinking, its tap water, safe to drink but I just looked it up and apparently my city's water hardness jumps high in winter months! I'll look into a water purifier for him

Thank you for that alternative antibiotic, I'll mention that to my vet along with sulfa allergy testing and see if i can bring them a urine sample just in case!

 

[Rhea92]

Calcium will leave a white area when it has dried--what I saw looked normal. I hate to mention it, but you may be seeing age related problems as he is at the extreme area of being an "Elder" bun. We wish you both good luck.

Thank you Nancy, he is my first bun so I need to remember his wonderful old body is a part of a very natural process... I truly appreciate you mentioning it. Thank you for the wishes, Rory and I send all the best back to you

 

[Nancy McClelland]

Forgot--we have a reverse osmosis system, so no hard water or chemicals--we can use it directly into our aquariums too.