Newly bonded females had bad fight

[meeka85]

Hi there,

I have bonded my two spayed females, and once they got to the snuggly phase I moved them into a brand new NIC condo that I built for them. This was on Saturday. I didn't move them until they could spend hours and hours together with no fighting and lots of snuggles. The NIC condo is in the room where both of their cages used to be and where they've both had free access to and would explore the room, but not together. Anyhoo, they had been doing great together in their new home. Oreo is the dominant rabbit, and can be a nipper. Nova is very calm and absolutely loves Oreo, even when Oreo is being a brat. Yesterday (Monday) I opened the bottom of the cage to let them out so they could play in the room together. It was going great for an hour, and then they both went over to where I stored the food and went under an end table... that's when all hell broke loose. Oreo full on attacked Nova. I had to rush over there and Nova started screaming when Oreo wouldn't let go. Oreo had no injuries that I could find, but Nova's front left paw is hurt. She is holding it up and is limping. I am taking her to the vet this week, just getting money together. Anyways, an hour after the fight and they were both calm, I took them to their favorite bonding spot. Oreo tried attacking Nova again, but after a few minutes of Nova trying to be like "I love you, let's not fight" Oreo started snuggling and loving on Nova again.

My question is... should I not have let them out in the area so soon? I am trying to find information on how to act with freshly bonded rabbits but I cannot find anything. They didn't fight anymore after a few hours in the bonding room and then were fine again in their condo. Any recommendations on how to keep the bond alive? Stick to familiar rooms?

Thanks you all in advance!


Erin

 

[missyscove]

It sounds like the area you let them free roam in is an area they both considered their own territory. The new cage was neutral, but they both think the room belongs to them. I would try letting them into smaller parts of the area at a time. Just pen off a corner of the room and work on bonding them in there and slowly expand their territory.

 

[agnesthelion]

I do agree with Missy. That area seems like it sparked some territorialness.

Can I ask you a few things?

What was their very first meeting like? Have they had any scuffles at all during bonding? How long have they known each other? Where was the hours and hours you talked about them spending together....where did they spend that time at? Do they eat together?

So sorry this happened by the way. I have a bonded pair myself and I hate hearing about fights I know how important it is that they get along. It always seems to be the same sex bonds, though, that have troubles. Just an FYI, but the same sex bonds seem to statistically be more prone to spontaneous fighting. I sure hope the vet doesn't find a serious injury on Nova.

 

[meeka85]

Thank you so much for the replies! Here is their history:

I got Nova in June and had her spayed in August. I got Oreo in October. I put their cages side by side so they could be near each other. Before really reading up on it, I got bad advice that said she didn't need to be spayed for bonding. So I took them to a neutral area and introduced them. Oreo lunged at and attacked Nova. I read more and realized both need to be spayed. So got Oreo spayed, and began the process when she was healed. I started them out in a small bathroom that was new to both. They ignored each other at first, then had small tiffs, but nothing serious. A few weeks of this and they eventually would inch closer and then eat together and groom. I then moved them to a bigger space that was new to them and they had some chasing (Oreo chasing Nova) and after a week they were all cuddles. Then I moved them to a place where both had been separately (living room, not where cages are). Same thing as before, a little chasing by Oreo but then all snuggles. After a week of this (with 6 hours a day), no fighting happened, so I decided to try putting them together in the condo I built. They did great and I watched them all day long on Saturday and Sunday and they were nothing but loves. And they eat together out of the same dish at the same time (I have two dishes in there, but they seem to prefer to share). I have two of everything in there lol

 

[agnesthelion]

Well, except for the attempt at bonding before a spay, that seems like a text book bond experience.

I guess the only red flags I see is that first attack by Oreo has set the tone for their relationship. I've read aLOT on bonding and have been quite surprised to learn how good of a memory buns have about fights between them So it does seem like from the beginning there has been a struggle for dominance. Even though it may appear that Nova doesn't challenge Oreo, Oreo (since she is the dominant bun) is feeling threatened by Nova in one way or another causing her to lash out.

I think taking a couple steps back may be needed. If the fight was as aggressive as it sounds, I'd be cautious to leave them housed together unsupervised for fear another fight will break out and then really hinder a bond.

Also, sometimes allowing them TOO MUCH space can start a bunny fight. It kind of goes against normal thinking (ie more space, less chance to fight) but I think when too much territory is allowed, they get possessive over new space. Which that could explain why things are fine in the NIC condo (they have worked out things there) but then sparked up when you let them out (they have figured out who "owns" that space yet).

So for as how many steps you need to go back....not sure. Follow your gut. Do you have an xpen you could set up around the NIC condo? For exaplme, leave the door open so they can come and go but the restrict the space outside of the condo for right now and increase over time.

Lastly, again to repeat, even with all avenues explored, you may not ever truly *know* the reason for their spat. It goes back to the same sex bond thing. It's just more difficult. And the with a f/f thing, females tend to be more territorial so the fights over space could be more intense

Good luck with it all! Whoever bun is in your avatar is ADORABLE! I have a Lionhead too and she is a joy.

 

[meeka85]

That is my darling sweet Nova Thank you so much for your reply! I don't have an Xpen, but that will be remedied on Friday (payday). I am glad I didn't get rid of their cages yet. I might separate them for a little while and do more bonding. It just always seems like it is going so well when they are grooming and loving on each other. Wish they could speak so I would know what they need.

 

[meeka85]

And now I am worried and want to go home to check on them. I left them in their condo together because they did great all last night after the fight and this morning they were all loves and kisses. Should I keep them together when I am there (in the cage), but at night and at work separate?

 

[agnesthelion]

And now I am worried and want to go home to check on them. I left them in their condo together because they did great all last night after the fight and this morning they were all loves and kisses. Should I keep them together when I am there (in the cage), but at night and at work separate?

It's so tough to say for sure. I'm not there and can't see them, ya know? And also, gut instinct says alot too. Also, my personality (I'm just more cautious and a fan of being proative rather than reactive) has aLOT to do with it too. So if it were me, because I'm more careful, I'd probably seperate if I weren't there to supervise. Only because I know how much a bad fight can set back a successful bond.
Then again, if you have a gut feeling, because you know your buns, and you feel like they should be together, then so be it.
And yes, wouldn't it be so much easier if they could talk? Haha. I took 30 days to bond my two. I went very slow and careful. Oh, and I reference this article aLOT but here was my favorite source of bonding info. Maybe read it through and see if you can find something that relates to your two for another perspective.
I'm rooting for success!! Good luck!

http://www.rabbitnetwork.org/articles/bond.shtml

 

[meeka85]

You're awesome, thank you so much! This is the picture I left home with:

Let's hope they are still all loves when I get home. Also, made an appointment and taking them to the vet to have Nova checked out. I read you should take both because of the bond. Car ride time!

 

[Chrisdoc]

Aw, they look so cute and happy together. I really hope they settle down again and get back to just cuddling.

 

[agnesthelion]

Aww sweet picture of them both!

And yes as far as car ride time...this could actually work in your favor! Definitely take them both and because they already have a bond, being "scared" in the car together could drive them passed their scuffle and push them to a tighter bond. Yay!

Let us know how things go!! Omg they are both too darn cute!

 

[meeka85]

I will do! I think it's so funny how you can scare them into loving each other

 

[Blue eyes]

I just wanted to agree that it is important to not allow them too much free space at once or territory disputes can ensue. When I finally brought my 2 down to their cage after bonding, I set up an x-pen around their cage.

I didn't let them have the whole area at once - just a bit at a time. Now they have the whole area.

 

[meeka85]

Went to the vet and they think Nova has a minor sprain and will be just fine the car ride was a great idea! They have been all snuggles and love all night! I really like the idea about the X-pen, so I am definitely going to give that a shot. Ideally, I would like them to have free roam of the place when my husband and I are home. I just love the idea of them exploring and having fun. When I was a little girl, my lop never had her cage shut... she was a free-to-roam rabbit. Good times.

 

[agnesthelion]

Glad the ride went well. I hope things continue going good!