Gus is dribbling pee

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Thanks, guys.

I'll for sure ask about blood work and/or an x-ray when we take him back in.

To be honest, I'm not sure why the vet wants to keep him on the Baytril, considering there's noevidence of infection. Maybe he figures there's something else bacterial going on somewhere else?

At least Gus likes his medicine. He tries to pull the syringe right out of my hand! Silly rabbit! :biggrin2:

Rue
 
So today Iwent to make the follow up appointment for this week like the vet told me to and he's on vacation till Saturday! I was hoping to get him in either tomorrow afternoon or Thursday since he's done his Baytril today. :(

I am really worrying about Gus. I wish it had just been a straight forward UTI that would clear up with antibiotics. I've been reading up on urinary issues in rabbits and every situation just doesn't sound good. I'm scared we're going to end up investing thousands of dollars trying to discover the cause of his dribbling only to have to put himto sleepbecause it's too late. :tears2:

This morning when I woke up his whole bottom was pretty much soaked. Before it was just the base of his tail that would be wet. I had to give him a full on butt bath. Which stressed him out. And I'm sure stress right now can't be good for him.

Is there anything else I can do besides wait for his next visit to the vet on Saturday?

Rue
 
From what I have read, there isn't much you can do unless you can pinpoint what it is. I'm sorry I can't be more help but I can definitely sympathise with your situation right now...

Sending good vibes to you and Gus now. Just take a breath, monitor him, and hope for the best. Really, I'm sure everything will be just fine.
 
The Baytril is good to keep any underlying infections at bay. Even with crystals or stones, there's a chance of infection. Its too bad the vet is away, gives you more time to worry. I don't know that he has to be there to take a blood sample and maybe an x-ray, isn't there staff who can do that? Then they'll have the results for him to read when he gets back.

They can also give him sub q fluids to see if there's an improvement.


sas
 
Thanks, guys.

Sas, I will call and ask themabout itin the morning.

This is probably one of those hoofbeats and zebras things, but I was doing some reading tonight on causes of kidney failure in rabbits and stumbled across a page talking about mycotoxins. I don't know much abouthow mycotoxin poisoning presents itself, but I knowmould in rabbit pellets can be the cause. And I just noticedyesterday when I opened Gus's pellet bin thathis Kaytee pelletshad a funny, musty smell to them. I stopped feeding them to him right away, but after reading that page, it's got me really worried. :(

Thanks for the help and assurances!

Rue
 
I thought about mycotoxins, but it could still be an undetected infection and that Baytril just isn't the right drug for that bacteria. I've read that you can't rule out an infection even with a negative culture on a urine sample, although its not clear what tests were run.

I've seen reports of rabbits with EC whose only symptom is dribbling.

Keep us updated.


sas :pray:
 
Thanks, Pipp.

The thingwith mycotoxins is don't you thinkhe'd show other signs of digestive upset? Also, I went back through some of my old posts and noticed he was starting to have issues with peeing back in March. I found the receipt for his pellets and I bought them in June. So I think it's most likely a zebra thing. I will mention it to the vet, however.

I've read that about bacteria in urine, too. Especially if he's drinking so much it's overly diluting his urine. I'm going to try to get this next sample right before we head into the vet, so any bacteria (if there is any) won't have a chance to die off before he can see them. I'll ask if I can get copies of the lab reports too.

And I'm definitely going to ask about the bloodwork and x-rays.

It's so weird, though, because other than the dribbling, Gus seems perfectly healthy. Right now, he's in his pen on the back patio giving himself a thorough bath. He just doesn't seem like a sick bunny. :(

Rue
 
Maybe he just has a week muscle (forget what it's called) which just take a weekly pill to make better.

The blood test should tell them a lot re: kidney function. Hopefully they'll get it done and get the results soon.

Waiting sucks!


sas :clover:
 
So today Gus had an x-ray, but there was no sign of kidney or bladder stones. There was something on his spine (I can't remember what the vet called it), but he said it wasn't abnormal. Anyway, we discussed the different possible causes for kidneys failing (he mentioned his urine is .1010 which definitely indicates kidney failure) and the vet thinks the mostlikely cause isGus coming in contact with some toxin (like anti-freeze--though I'm pretty sure Gus hasn't been around any anti-freeze! :shock:). Now, I'm wracking my brain trying to think of what toxins he could have come in contact with! Could he have snacked on something poisonous in the garden? Could it be the pine pellets in his litter box? And what about that funky smelling food?:(

The vetalso did another urinanalysis, but it came back normal again. He even tried looking at the urine under a ultra-violet light to see if any blood would show up!

Anyway, the vet suggestedthe next step would begetting blood work done, but then we got talking about EC and we decided to try Panacur for a month firstand see if that helps. He said every case of EC he's seen has presented itself with paralysis or head tilt, but that doesn't mean that Gus couldn't have it. So Gus is on 15 mL of Panacur every day. The thing that concerns me, though, is he wants me to mix one packet of the Panacur into 100mL of yoghurt, then syringe 15 mL to Gus. But Gus hasn't had any dairy since we've had him, so I'm concerned about him having a bad reaction to so much yoghurt!

Also, I should've asked the vet this, but forgot: is there any problem with treating Gus with Panacur if he's been treated with Revolution too? It's been about 2 months since his last dose of Revolution.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

Thanks so much!

Rue
 
This vet is supposed to be one of the better ones out there but I don't know. I would have done the blood test before the x-ray if he expected kidney involvement, hadn't found blood in the urine, Gus wasn't straining to pee and he wasn't feeling any stones. The blood test would gauge kidney function.

If the kidney function was normal, an x-ray would address spinal involvement, stones, tumours or whatever.

Are you sure he's 'leaking' and not squatting in the urine? I'm wondering if the spinal thing is more involved that the vet realizes.

A Panacur and antibiotics combo is usually the first line of treatment, not sure why he waited on the Panacur.

How old is Gus again? And are you sure of his age? All kinds of genetics can enter into it as well as toxins and parasites.

Has he been around raccoon toilet areas?

Yogurt is supposed to be a big no-no for rabbits, but actually it's just old school, they prescribed it for years and they weren't killing rabbits with it. Some rabbits may be lactose intolerant and the sugars can be a problem for rabbits with certain gut issues, and there are better probiotics out there these days, but it isn't horrible. It does normally tell you how up to date on bunny health the vet is though. Can't tell whether in this case it means he's not up on it or he's really up on it, LOL!

I really wish he would have done the blood panel first, though. I didn't think a urine test could give you much kidney function info, but maybe it can.

Hopefully somebody more up on it (or thinking more clearly) can contribute to this.


sas :clover:
 
Oh wait, he's talking powder packet of Panacur? It's way easier to give in the liquid form, it actually tastes pretty good. I think we have a big bottle of it kicking around here, tho I have to figure out where it is. Let me know if you're coming into town. (This also makes me wonder how many rabbits he's treating, hmmm...)


sas
 
Aaaarrrggghhh!!! I just wrote a super long reply and my computer just ate it!!! :grumpy:

Trying again:

I think the vet is pretty convinced his kidney failure is due to toxins. I'm not sure why he went with the x-ray before the blood work, but he did say that's the next step. But then we got talking about EC and he changed his mind and said maybe we should rule that out first.But he didn't seem convinced EC was the problem since he's only ever seen EC in conjunction with head tilt or paralysis.

I'm definitely sure that Gus has been leaking urine. The reason I called the vet was because he left a trail of pee on the floor behind him one day and when I picked him up and looked underneath him his tail was wet and I could actually see a small drop of pee coming out of him. Plus, since then, I've noticedhe's left puddles whereever he's been laying/sleeping. I've been cleaning his bum with cornstarch, though he HATES having his tail touched. :(

I have no idea how old Gus is. I was told he was two, yet his old owner made some contradictory statements which made me wonder if he was actually under a year. But then he's never shown any of the naughty teenaged bun behaviour, which makes me wonder if he's much older. It's reallyimpossible to tell with rescue buns! :(

As far as I know, there's no racoon feces in our backyard. Not that I know what racoon feces looks like! :shock:

Gus has had 3 in-office urine tests (the type with the dip stick), but also 1 lab test. Today the vet did say Gus's urine was still diluted, so I think the dip stick does show that info?

I never asked him how many rabbits he's currently got as patients. I do know he treated rabbits (and other small furries) for one of the rescues here in the Lower Mainland. And he was at an exotics conference recently, but not sure how much focus there was on rabbits at that.

Okay, going to post this now before my computer eats it again!

Thanks so much, Sas!

Rue
 
Incidentally, all day today, Gus has been bone dry. Not a drop of urine on histail or the floor. What's up with that?

Also, I'm sure the yoghurt wouldn't kill him, just wasn't sure if it would wreak havoc on his digestive system since he's not had dairy any time recently. Would mixing it with 100 mL of fruit juice work instead? I don't know the next time I'll be going downtown. Though, if the powdered stuff simply won't work, I'll make the trip for liquid! ;)

Thanks again!

Rue
 
So I haven't started Gus on the Panacure yet (not sure how to dose it without the yoghurt. I'm guessing mixing it into juice would be okay, but was hoping someone more familiar with dosing medication could chime in).

But anyway, as I mentioned upthread, all day yesterday he was dry. And today, the same thing. No pee on his tail, no dribbles on the floor, no puddle on his bed in the morning. I noticed his water consumption has gone way down. One bowl of water lasted him 24 hours and I even poured out the last 1/2 inch in the bottom and refilled it! I don't know how long it's been since I've had to do that! Usuallyhe completely empties his bowl twice a day!

Plus he's been acting much friskier. He escaped from his pen in the backyard (yes, three weeks before we move, he decides to learn to jump out of his pen! :p) and went adventuring to the neighbours house! He's been flopping and laying stretched out (instead of muffined) and just generally hopping around a lot more than he's been doing in several weeks. I just didn't notice how unactive he'd been until today!

Could he be getting better? Is that possible withkidneys? I thought once they were damaged, they were damaged?

Thanks!

Rue
 
They may not have been damaged. :) If he had the tail end (heh!) of a crystals problem or even a virus, I would think it can correct itself without damage.

I think I'll be asking a couple of vets about this one.

Cross your fingers, paws, ears, tails and toes!


sas :clover:
 
Thanks, Sas.

I think I may have spoke too soon. Gus had a wet tail again this morning. He's still not drinking as much water and there weren't any new dribbles on the floor, so that's good. But it was really discouraging to see the wet spot at the base of his tail again. :(

Rue
 
So since my last post, Gus seems to have recovered completely from his dribbling. He had a wet tail for a day or two, but I haven't noticed any new dribbles on the floor since. His drinking hasreturned toa normal amountand he'speeing a normal amount and generally acting like his regular normal self! Maybe a little more spunky than usual as I saw him binkying in the backyard--something I haven't seen him do since this whole dribbling thing started.

I have no idea if it's the Panacur working or not. I didn't starthim on the Panacuruntil Tuesday and by then he was already back to drinking and peeing a normal amount. But I thought it best to put him on it just in case. I mixed it with 100 mL of fruit juice and then syringed his dose to him (15 mL). He took it just fine the first two days, then started refusing it. So I mashed up a strawberry, squirted his medicine onto it and then syringed up the mush. He took his medicine no problem then! ;)

At this point, I'm wondering if I should call up the vet and get another urinanalysis done to see if his urine is no longer diluted, or wait until he's finished with his Panacur.

Thanks so much for the help so far!

Rue
 
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