E Cunuculi

[Kylz69]

Can anyone offer any advice.
I have a much loved bunny who has e Cunuculi.
He has had 2 episodes in the last 6 months, requiring vet treatment (and $1000 of bills..)
We have no real information on this boy as was a stray rehomed to me by the vet, so no clue on age etc.
He lives a very privileged lifestyle, and is my only pet.
He has always been on the thin side, thinner when sick. He has access to every food under the sun and we waste a lot refilling all the different containers daily and a small fortune on kale and bok choy (his fav veges) and apples.

The issue is I work away 3 weeks a month. His care does not suffer, he is either looked after by my husband or I pay a pet sitter who is a rabbit owner herself.
My problem is that next time he has an episode which typically involves him paralysed, I'm feeling I will have to Euth. I don't gave the luxury of having available the care the Medicate and toilet him and food/drink like he needs in an episode.
Does anyone have any experience with this?
I'm really stressed constantly worried he will episode again when I'm not home and my hubby has said he is looking thin again, so I'm super stressed that its going to happen again before I get home in 2 weeks

 

[JBun]

What sort of testing have you had done? Have you ever had a blood test done to check for kidney and liver function? Also what type of meds has the vet prescribed and how long were they given?

 

[Kylz69]

He went to a rabbit specialist, had all avail blood tests done I believe, results were EC.
When he episodes he was on metacam both times, on the panacur for 30 days and went down again about 20 into that. He came back from the bunny specialist with both those medications and a bunch of get better stuff but no medications.
I have never given him periods of panacur since as he episoded on it and the dosing makes him hate us, plus again I'm not around to do it and I don't believe it helps.
As far as I'm aware it's the only parasitic avail in aus for this.
They did send his blood tests to me, everything was normal I was told

 

[JBun]

A downturn during treatment, is a common occurrence, but then the rabbit will often start to improve after that.

If you are not able to give panacur now, then that is going to limit possibilities of recovery, as that is the main medication shown effective and given for EC. There are other possible medicaitons that you can look into. One is called Ponzuril, and I believe it is available where you are at. It's not commonly used and there isn't a lot of info on it's use in rabbits, but if your rabbit isn't getting better and you've run out of choices, then this may be worth trying. I believe the dosage time is also shorter, so you wouldn't need to be doing the month long treatment like you do with panacur.

http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Neurology/cuniculi/pyrimethamine.htm
http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/paresis.html

 

[Watermelons]

If the rabbit is to have any chance of recovery, the most important thing you can do is give the full dose of medication for the entire length of time its prescribed. Regardless of how much the rabbit hates the meds or you for doing it. Stopping because their getting mad for a few days, erases everything you had done up to that point. And can in some cases cause the bacteria or parasite to build up an immunity to the drug.

 

[Kylz69]

He was given the full meds for the entire duration of his recovery. He relapsed middle of first recovery and had to start again, which he completed.
The vets have said to give him regular doses of panacur 'just incase' which is the area I can't commit too as no one to administer it.

 

[Bill Jesse]

First of all are you certain it is E.C.? Almost all rabbits can test positive for it and a series of the same test should be performed over a few weeks. If the results are the same I do not think it is E.C. On the other hand if the results are higher it could be. Does he/she exhibit the normal E.C. symptoms? I don't know if losing weight is a symptom. Hope this helps a bit and please repost when you get other information.

 

[majorv]

A blood titer, done over 2-3 weeks, is the test given to see if there is active infection. If you've given him the full course of panacur without result then either it's something else or resistant to panacur. There is another drug that can be used, as Jenny said, but it's rather expensive. If you can't commit to giving your rabbit meds because he won't like you then there's not much left you can do.

 

[Kylz69]

He went to the rabbit specialist who is the 3rd opinion that's its EC.
He gets completely paralysed is the main symptom, you can feel the heat in his neck, and him being poorly weight wise was a by product I was told. He was tested for a big range of things if anyone would like to look over the results.
He is a rescue (via a vet) with unknown history so possibly panacur resistant, there is no way to know what treatment he had in the past if any.

I'm a little offended that its suggested I won't medicate because my rabbit won't like me, what I said is I cannot commit to periodic 10 day treatments when I work away from home 3 weeks a month. I also cannot commit to his minder doing it when I'm away as it makes him distrustful and hard to catch, and he has already relapsed on this very treatment so I'm very dubious as to its success with him in any case, to be given for no other reason than because.

This rabbit is a much loved member of my family and costs a small fortune to have kept in the manner I want when I'm away (my house is air conditioned purely for his comfort, no one else is home) it's not about money, it's about his comfort and what I can do for him now in difficult circumstances. If he relapsed when I'm away, I need to decide what his recovery odds are to decide the best possible way to deal with it.

 

[lovelops]

I understand what you are saying. I had a pet that had a medical condition Von Wilderbrands and he wound up paralyzed due to a small bump he received while playing and I had to take care of him while he was in the paralyzed state until the blood clot on his spinal column dissolved back into his blood stream. I spent one time $5000 on him to get an MRI to make certain the reason he was paralyzed was due to the blood clot and not a spinal disc herniation, etc.

Stupid question, since you work away from home is there any way you can take him with you and take the pet sitter with you during the time period he had to be on the meds? You work 8 hours a day correct? Pet sitter 8 hours, and then you take over the remaining time?

It broke my heart when my pet was paralyzed and I took off work for the month (I had a ton of vacation time I never took) to take care of him, but then again my mother was paralyzed also so I was taking care of a paralyzed mother and dog at the same time! However is taking vacation time during the time your bunny needs the meds is another option?

I mean, he will recover is what the vets have said correct? So it's not like this is a hopeless case. It's just working out the logistics with the medication and dealing with the paralysis correct? And you don't want your pet stressed out any more than necessary.

The problem is the reaction to the medication.

Is there anyone that can assist you with helping out if you need to have him with you while you work if you cannot take off? Is there another family member that can assist you while you work so he can be with you?

If you have gone the extra step to put AC in your house that tells me this bunny means an awful lot to you so this is serious.

You are in Australia, correct? Is there other meds to be given in place of this? Have you told the vet the reaction is paralysis? Is this even normal for this medication? Is this some side effect from something else? Have you asked?
I'm just trying to cover all bases here..

I also know we all don't have the same meds in the US as Australia because my first husband was British and when I was in England there were meds that just did NOT exist that was over in the states.. and like wise for the US.. Just walk in a pharmacy in the US and ask for Paracetamol . You won't find it. But you will find acetaminophen.

As someone that has had a paralyzed pet for a short period of time, I totally understand your anxiety. Especially when it's not their normal state. They get highly stressed and in humans it's a bit different but in animals it's something you can't explain to them and when their feet don't work or they can't hop or move around it can be a worrying thing to see them getting stressed out.

Vanessa

 

[Kylz69]

Unfortunately I am flown into work and work on a remote minesite, it's 12hr days and I wouldn't get him past airport security!

I just don't want him to suffer should he relapse, he cannot move to eat or drink and needs toileted.

I guess I will cross that bridge when it comes, I was worried last week as hubby said he didn't seem very well, but bounced back when hubby was home.
I think he misses his mama too

 

[majorv]

Sorry to offend. I was just picking up on your comment in reply#3 that dosing him made him hate you.

I know how difficult it can be to treat EC, as we've had to deal with it in a couple of our rabbits. The symptoms can vary greatly from one rabbit to another. If caught early, the 28 day treatment can work, though not always. The problem is EC is not well understood and currently panacur or safeguard are the main drugs for treatment. Other than the drug Jenny mentioned, which is still very new, I don't know of anything else that can be used.

 

[lovelops]

Unfortunately I am flown into work and work on a remote minesite, it's 12hr days and I wouldn't get him past airport security!

I just don't want him to suffer should he relapse, he cannot move to eat or drink and needs toileted.

I guess I will cross that bridge when it comes, I was worried last week as hubby said he didn't seem very well, but bounced back when hubby was home.
I think he misses his mama too
View attachment 7855

Here in the US we can get rabbits past security in the proper carriers. I used to work for TSA-Transportation Security Administration as a Fed so animals can go through but it has to be in proper carriers and secured.
That would not be a problem. Heck, when I worked at NASA I probably could have brought one of my rabbits or chihuahua's in and kept it secured in the office with me if it was sick and I needed to keep an eye on it. The people there were pretty understanding and cool about things. Seriously.

I understand what you are talking about since I had to move Buttons,
help him use the bathroom, feed him, shift his body weight every two hours so he would not get pressure sores, etc. I totally get what you are saying. You just cannot leave an animal in a helpless situation on it's own. Honestly it's cruel and would be akin to me leaving my mother alone for hours in her bed when she was alive and paralyzed not able to do anything on her own and dependent on others for everything.

If you are telling me the airport situations in Australia is totally different from the US and you cannot fly animals with you in any circumstances, I would explain to my job you have a sick pet and you need to take care of it for X amount of time. I did that believe it or not when I was at NASA. They understood and when he died they let me have a few days off, honestly.

To me, my animals are top priority over my work. I know that sounds nuts, and the dogs and rabbits don't pay the bills or the mortgage, but I'm a specialist with the government and the amount of people that can do one of the things I specialize in are few and far between. I've been working from home now for almost a month due to rib fractures. No problems. I've still been able to produce and meet deadlines. My other area is cyber security so if one fails I can always get a job in the other arena.

Then again,doing security we always have Contingency plans of which I have written many... I think if I were you, I would start putting those together. If you cannot take him with you with a pet sitter- this is Plan A, then what is best case Plan B? Husband and pet sitter takes care of him when you travel? Ok then work to Plan C. Family member and husband and you come back and visit on weekends? you would probably be a few hours away no matter where you are in Aus. Then onto Plan D and so on.

He will recover. There is no sense in putting him down for this. the problem now is logistics and with planning that can be worked out. It's just going to take some brain work right now.

You baby is adorable. I wish you nothing but the best and hope that you and your family will get the best solution for his health worked out. For me and Buttons when he was paralyzed I took the time off until he recovered.
To me that was the only option. I could not stand to be away from him
and find out he took a turn for the worse, it would have killed me.

Please keep us posted and all the best for you and your bun
Vanessa

 

[warminwisco]

Is your husband good with yur bun? IS there flavors you could try our buns didn't seem to min panacur but all buns are different. 3 out of 4 weeks is alot to expect folks to help you, you are right.

 

[Kylz69]

Vanessa, it's a different situation here for me, I fly to work in the middle of a desert (of environmental significance) I am prohibited from bringing animals (or even fruit) and its a chartered plane not a commercial airline.

My hubby is good with our bunny but works away also (2 weeks a month) he however has a far more fragile relationship with the rabbit and won't be capable of medicating him (I'm an ex vet nurse)
Whilst I could in essence panacur him every time I'm home, that means for the rest of his life, every time he sees him mama she is syringing stuff into him, hence my comment about him hating me. Would he rather a longer life with medication and a bond loss from me, or a short happy one. I dunno.
I know what I would prefer.
Would I take the chance anyway, not if I had the choice, but I don't.

I was hoping someone would say just do this, or that, and he would never get it again. I guess it will be week by week, he has been good since dec, I stress about it daily though.
What a horrible cruel disease

 

[Kylz69]

Oh and here at work, I live in a camp. It's 46 degrees (c) at the moment, I think he would prefer the aircon in the house

 

[JBun]

EC is just one of those dreaded illnesses with rabbits, that can be extremely difficult to treat. It sounds like you are handling it the best you can for your situation. All I can think would be to try a round of the ponzuril(Baycox) to see if it helps. I don't think the treatment is as long as it is for the fenbendazole. So days of medicating as opposed to weeks.

 

[lovelops]

Vanessa, it's a different situation here for me, I fly to work in the middle of a desert (of environmental significance) I am prohibited from bringing animals (or even fruit) and its a chartered plane not a commercial airline.

My hubby is good with our bunny but works away also (2 weeks a month) he however has a far more fragile relationship with the rabbit and won't be capable of medicating him (I'm an ex vet nurse)
Whilst I could in essence panacur him every time I'm home, that means for the rest of his life, every time he sees him mama she is syringing stuff into him, hence my comment about him hating me. Would he rather a longer life with medication and a bond loss from me, or a short happy one. I dunno.
I know what I would prefer.
Would I take the chance anyway, not if I had the choice, but I don't.

I was hoping someone would say just do this, or that, and he would never get it again. I guess it will be week by week, he has been good since dec, I stress about it daily though.
What a horrible cruel disease

I have to say honestly, I don't think he's going to hate you. I had to give Buttons tons of meds when he was paralyzed. He wasn't pleased, but let me tell you, after he could walk again, he was hopping on the couch, chairs everything. He was happy as heck. I believe he forgot all that mess and once he was well he was golden. I would not focus on that and Buttons was paralyzed for over 2 months and I had to leave him in emergency care and ICU as well with two IV's hooked up to him as they were trying to get him hydrated. That killed me seeing him with two IV's but better that then dead. To me, I'm going to do everything I can possible to keep my animal relatives etc around and in the best of health.

I hope you can work this out and speak to some more vets about some more preventative measures.

My heart goes out to you

Vanessa