Bonding Help Please

[tundrakatiebean]

Some of you already know that I now have two rabbits - Wash and Zoey. The plan was to try and bond them. It started out nicely with grooming and such, but now it's escalated to full out bunny boxing matches. Right now I have a bathroom split in half with a bunny on either side. After one escape from Wash (where he got beat up) I secured it so that it is imposible now (boy do I feel stupid). Zoey is acting like she despises Wash. I am at a loss as to what I should do next. I was hoping for some advice from all the wonderful folks who have had to deal with this (Hannah and Megan, Ali ect.).

I know I'll need to work at this and it will take a while, I'm just not sure what I need to do

 

[Haley]

Im sorry youre having trouble Katie I would back off for maybe a week or so in case the either is harbouring hateful thoughts

Then, I would try car rides. Put them in a carrier with the top open or something like a laundry basket and drive slowly around the neighborhood. It works best if someone else can drive and you can sit in the back with them. Then go to neutral territory and have a squirt gun handy. If anyone tries to bite you squirt them and shout NO.

End each session with something positive like a treat.

I think if I were you I would wait until you really have some time to devote (do you have a summer break?). I did 3-4 sessions a week for about an hour each time when I bonded Basil and Max. They went from mortal enemies to best buddies.

 

[Roxie]

If you are going to keep try and bonding have you tried switching their cages? This technique was EXTREMELY effective for my two. You should make it so that one cage is not Wash's but bothWash and Zoey's cage. For example at night you could switch their cages and in the morning you could switch them back again.


Good Luck, Hannah


Also if none of them are grooming each other you could try putting bannana on ones forehead.

 

[PixieStixxxx]

I'm also in the midst of bonding attitude raging bunnies!

Right now, they are living in a split NIC cage, and they have been doing so for about a week now. First, it was a fight to the end. Now they are occasionally lying next to each other by the bars.

I then switched their litter boxes, and that really helped.

Soon I will switch their cages. Precious will go into Labrador's half, and Labrador will go into Precious' half.

And then I try.. the car ride O_O

 

[tundrakatiebean]

They had a break after their first fight, for around a week. Zoey just went straight back for Wash when they saw each other again. I have switched cages and Wash DESTROYED Zoey's cage flooring, so I have to find something else to do about her cage. I'll try and do the car ride thing with my boyfriend on his day off. I do actually have a lot of time off - I have a four day 'weekend' with only 2 1/2 days of classes a week until the end of this month.

So far the bathroom thing is working - it seems Zoey only has a problem with Wash when she knows she can get to him... I'll see how they are tomorrow and figure out what to do about Zoey's real cage if I think they should go back to their places.

 

[Thumpers_Mom]

Hey Katie, sorry you're having a hard time with the bonding but know that you are not alone. I went through the same thing when I was bonding Thumper and Peaches.

I'm sorry if you had mentioned this already, but what are some of the techniques that you are using for bonding?

 

[Pet_Bunny]

I am bonding Pebbles and Bebe too.

At first Pebbles was the aggressor, but now the roles have changed and Bebe is the dominate aggressor. When they had a serious, very viscous fight, Pebbles would always get the worst of it. There was no blood, but some of the teeth marks punctured Pebbles skin. After a fight like that, I would separate the two for a week until all injuries have healed before I would try putting the two together again. The last fight was around Christmas.

Since then, there was some progress. They are able to spend time in the play pen under supervision. However, the longer I let the two out, Bebe starts to control the space. Pebbles was always safe if she sat in the litter boxes. But if she ventured out, Bebe would give chase.

How far I would go with bonding is to hope there is no fighting or injuries when the two are together. I still like to put the two back into their own cages at night. At least they still have their own space and privacy. This way, I can tell how much food they eat on their own, without the other stealing food. I wouldn't leave my two by themselves for an extended amount of time.

One thing that works for me with no fightsat all, is I can put both of them into a carrier together. It is so tight with the two inside, that it is difficult for them to move around. Bebe would lay there, while Pebbles starts to groom Bebe. There are occasions Pebbles mounts Bebe in the carrier, but Bebe does nothing back. This might be the key for me. The longer the time they are crammed inside the carrier, the more accepting they become of each other.

 

[Pet_Bunny]

I would be afraid of the contact between the two if they are fighting.
The space between the bars can cause one to bite the other seriously.
I wouldadd extrapanels (overlap them) so the spacing is smaller so they can't reachthrough to bite.

 

[tundrakatiebean]

Thanks Stan, that picture was from earlier and they did fight through the bars. Right now in the bathroom there are two sets of staggered NIC grids inbetween them and they can't fight through them. So far we've only had pulled fur, no bite marks.

So far I've just let them play together (before they started fighting) and have switched cages. I was going to try sticking them both in the bathtub, but with how aggressive they are being I don't think that's a good idea.



I'll take some pictures of the setup I have now so that you guys can see.


ETA: here are the pictures

This is Wash's side. There are two doors (one on either side) so to get to Zoey's side I just go through the other door.

The NIC grids:

Zoey's side:

 

[Flashy]

I'm having similar problems with Sky and Sandy (infact, Sandy and everyone because I've done bunny dates).

I woudl suggest using the bathtub. I had never used it before, but they hate it because they slip, that means they can't do anything really vicious to each other because they just fall over. Sky and Sandy huddled together for a couple of minutes, which was all I did. Little and often is what I'm going to go for. With Badger and Sandy I put some banana in there and they sat and ate together, but would fight when not in the bath. So I would seriously suggest it because they can't do much and its easy to separate them because you can slide them apart if anything does happen.

My bath is not fibreglass, so it might be different, but it might not. But yes. Bath, and also drive because Sandy and Sky huddled together for two hours on a journey.

Good luck.

(that was all a bit garbled, sorry, my brain is a bit nonfunctional).

 

[tundrakatiebean]

Thanks Tracey! I'll probably do that once my boyfriend is home so that he can help me wrangle bunnies. And don't worry, it all made sense to me :biggrin2:

 

[TinysMom]

Haley wrote:

I did 3-4 sessions a week for about an hour each time when I bonded Basil and Max. They went from mortal enemies to best buddies.

I think that this last sentence is one of the most positive things I've ever read about bonding. Haley - thanks for saying that.

I wish I could help - but my bunnies have sort of bonded themselves...so I don't have any tips....

But I do wish you the best of luck and will be sending good thoughts and prayers your way.

Peg

 

[honore]

I'm also having bonding problems. We rescued Clementine about 5 years ago and she had been best friends with our Australian Shepherd mix. He passed away a month ago. From then on, she became really clingy with me, sleeping in our bed and following me everywhere (I work from home a good part of the time). I have a trip coming up and thought I would get another rabbit so she won't be lonely. So, I adopted a neutered male of similar breed/size, 1 1/2 years old, from the shelter a couple of days ago. Charlie is just the sweetest and laid back rabbit, and from his personality one would think he'd have no problem being the under rabbit. The first night he spent at home (away from her, in a walk-in closet with a gate separating him from the main room), Clementine was thumping and completely panicky, and she hadn't even met him yet!
I've been taking it very slow, with meetings "at the gate", treats and feedings next to each other, and all seemed ok, with Charlie being sweet, even through the gate, and Clementine going from charging and biting the gate, to showing him her backside as to express her disdain, to tolerating his company.
I let them meet in-rabbit, in the masterbathroom. All started out alright. They met, they sniffed, Charlie showed his submission and Clementine her alpha status. But the, Charlie's hormones took over. He started circling her, honking like a wild pig and mounting her as if his life depended on it. Clementine just froze with fear. I separated them and since then things are not that great. I checked Charlie's records from the shelter and found out that he was neutered just 1 week ago! I am leaving in 3 weeks and unless his hormones settle down, I don't see how I can get them bonded before.
Anybody has any tips about how to get Romeo "un-romeoed"?

 

[BunnyWabbit]

With fighting bunnies, stress bonding is usually beneficial. My favorite stress bonding method involes making a 1X1 cube. Like this:


I usually set them on the couch and bounce/jostle them. I've also placed them on a computer chair and shake and push them around the house.

For really aggressive rabbits you can separate them with a metal strainer. This allows them to interact without being able to actually "get at" each other.

 

[honore]

So far we made some progress, or so I thought. The new rabbit, Charlie, basically is a saint. He shows no aggression at all, but he wants to be close to Clementine, who wants nothing to do with him. I had them side by side separated by a gate. Then I put them in the bathtub, then in the bathroom together, then I put Clementine into his pen (aka walk-in closet). Everyday a bit more and a bit longer, with treats to reward them for being good. Today for the first time they are together in the master bed room. There is no fighting at all, and I put treats out, so they eat together. But mostly she tries to get away and he runs after her. Then she goes to the gate and tries to chew herself out of the bedroom to get away from him. But when he catches up with her (he's younger and faster), there is no fighting. He sniffs and puts his head under her to show his submission, and she disses him and runs away, and thus the bunny chase continues...


About the stress-bonding: I just feel so bad for Clementine. She gets so upset. She's been living a very peaceful life for the past 6 years, I'm concerned the stress will make her sick. Also, she's never been caged and already to put her into his pen upset her and she tried to chew and dig her way out. She spends now many hours under my bed and won't come out, something she never did before.

As I finish this post, Charlie is lying next to me stretched out, and Clementine is doing the same in the other side of the room.

 

[Blue eyes]

With Charlie just having been neutered, I don't think it's realistic to expect them to bond well so quickly. It usually takes 4 weeks and sometimes 8 wees before those hormones subside. Once they do, then the tables could turn on who is boss. You could end up with another struggle over who will be top bun.
That means that those changes could start occurring while you are away and not there to monitor. Leaving them together could be disastrous.
During one of my bondings, the buns got along well for 4 weeks and then suddenly all hell broke loose. They had to be permanently separated as they were out for blood. (and this did not involve a recent neuter)
I'm surprised the rescue let you take him without first letting the two of them meet. That's usual protocol. They also should have warned you about how recent was his neuter.
Now that you are in this situation, they are showing some positive signs. I don't know if it would be a wise idea to allow them together while you are away even if they continue to show progress. Girls are notoriously territorial and your girl may try to reverse the dominance once his hormones settle down.

 

[honore]

I had hoped to be able to bring Clementine to the shelter to let her pick out her friend, but it was just a local kill shelter. They have a high turn over. Rabbits get brought in, neutered/spayed, and only stay for a short time (happy or not happy ending). It was also not easy to find a male adult rabbit. Almost all were either too young or female or bonded pairs. I did spend some time with Charlie before adopting him. I took him, because he showed no aggression at all. At home he's the same. Just very sweet and laid back.
I do see more progress. All aggression (always from her, never from him) has completely stopped, even when he gets to her "holy" places. They eat side by side, I pet them side by side and they seem content. Charlie stopped the honking and mounting attempts, which in turn stopped her mounting him and growling at him. He continues to chase her, but it seems more of a friendly chase. She runs away, he runs after her, but when he catches up, nothing happens. They just lie down or he hops somewhere else.
I just wish they would start grooming each other or snuggle next to each other or hang out next to each other. They always take naps in separate rooms, or meet for a while, usually to eat (I only feed them or give them treats together to positively enforce the meetings), and then each one hops off in a different direction. They both seem more interested in me than in each other.
I will try the car ride today, just to see what happens, but I really don't like the idea of making any animal uncomfortable on purpose.
Yesterday, last night and this morning I have had them completely without gates and freely roaming the house, and the chasing slowed down a lot. But again, there is no aggression whatsoever in the chase, neither in body language or sounds.
I'll update after the car ride today (sigh) and might try rubbing the banana on their foreheads.

 

[Azerane]

It honestly sounds like you don't even need the car ride. If there's no aggression and they're getting along, there's no reason to force that. Sure they're not best buddies yet grooming each other etc, but it just may take a little more time.

 

[honore]

So I took them for the ride yesterday and on top of it started thundering and lightning. The two were trembling in the carrier and all I could think was how rotten of a persona I am. Before we left, I prepared their dinner and some banana as a special treat in the neutral zone. After the return I put them in the gated small area and they ate next to each other and all seemed good. There was no chasing at all, some sniffing and nose touching. But this morning it is back to the usual. Clementine slept under my bed and Charlie under the bed in the next room.
I think you are right. I'm going to stop the stress bonding and give it more time. Clementine has started to run away from ME, and this morning she did not hop into my bed. She is definitely holding a grudge from the car ride (she's good at that).

 

[Azerane]

At least the car ride didn't have a negative effect on them. And good on you for preparing a tasty meal before you left so it was ready to go as a reward. Give them time, and lots of rewards for being good near each other and I think they will come around