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Whiskerz

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OK, So I have NO idea what is going on!? :?

Liam and Felix are BEST of buddies, as most of you guys know.

Well, I got a new bunnies the other day, a mini rex buck about 6 months old. I tried bonding them and Felix and Lewis(mini rex) did well together, they really actually like each other and haven't had issues. But, Lewis humps Felix.. A LOT. Felix doesn't seam to care is the thing which I think is ...weird. Is this bad? Should I not let Lewis hump Felix? I do plan to get Lewis fixed also, just letting you know.

But I have a bigger problem. Liam is going CRAZY now! He HATES Lewis and I woke up to him fighting with Felix. he was chasing him around and ripping out his fur and pretty much attcking poor Felix! It was hard breakign the two up..

I waited awhile and then put Liam back in the cage with Felix again and he started fighting with him AGAIN! I dont know what Liam's problem is!!! ANd ontop of that, Liam wont stop humping Felix!

I want to just get them all fixed but Liam and Felix cant for another 3 months!

Poor Felix just lets everyone beat up on him :(

And so everyone knows, I have my C&C cage devided into 2 cages. one half for Felix and Liam and the other for Lewis.

Please, I need help!!!
 
TBH, intact bunnies will not get along in a peaceful way. Young bunnies, before they hit sexual maturity, will often get along very well in groups, but as soon as they reach maturity they will fight and need to be separated. Liam and Felix are still young, correct? Once they hit 5-6 mo they will act just like Lewis is acting and will have to be separated until they are neutered.
 
You already put them in to sleep together?
Ahhh, you're going WAY too fast with this.
Same gender bonding takes TIME.
And usually REQUIRES neutering.

As everyone else said, keep them seperate until they are fixed.
And even then, do bonding sessions before you actually have them live together.
 
They are NOT int he same cage, the boys are on top and Lewis is on bottom, they cant even see each other.

What is actually too quickly and what exactly is the right amount of time.

*edited to remove inflammatory content*


 
Whiskerz wrote:
Yield wrote:
You already put them in to sleep together?
Ahhh, you're going WAY too fast with this.
Same gender bonding takes TIME.
And usually REQUIRES neutering.

As everyone else said, keep them seperate until they are fixed.
And even then, do bonding sessions before you actually have them live together.

They are NOT int he same cage, the boys are on top and Lewis is on bottom, they cant even see each other.

What is actually too quickly and what exactly is the right amount of time.

I know the two are separate from Lewis, but as soon as Liam and Felix get of age, they're going to act the same way. And as you said, they're already displaying that.

Direct quote from YOU: "ANd ontop of that, Liam wont stop humping Felix!"


Also, I'm sure people share my opinion as well.

*edited to remove inflammatory content*
 
Whiskerz wrote:
Yield wrote:
You already put them in to sleep together?
Ahhh, you're going WAY too fast with this.
Same gender bonding takes TIME.
And usually REQUIRES neutering.

As everyone else said, keep them seperate until they are fixed.
And even then, do bonding sessions before you actually have them live together.


They are NOT int he same cage, the boys are on top and Lewis is on bottom, they cant even see each other.

What is actually too quickly and what exactly is the right amount of time.
You asked for help, you are getting help.

*edited to remove inflammatory content*
 
Please keep your bunnies apart, my barbie had her man parts (yes she is he long story) bitten off by Jackman and it was not nice.

Please keep them apart xxxx
 
Briggers wrote:
Please keep your bunnies apart, my barbie had her man parts (yes she is he long story) bitten off by Jackman and it was not nice.

Please keep them apart xxxx
This doesnt help much :?

You cant just keep them apart forever, I am trying to bond them.
 
When I got Marley as a baby her and Domino got along wonderful! But I knew it wouldn't last so they never lived together (just got play time) And sure enough when Marley hit about 5 months and that was the end of play time together. I have yet to ever get them to bond together and live peacefully. (But Domino isn't spayed).

A while back I got two mini rex females (two half sisters a month apart in age). They got along great! LOVED each other! Snuggled together and followed each other all around! Until they hit 5/6 months. They started fighting. They would be fine and dandy and all of a sudden a fight would break out. They were separated obviously.

I would definitely be prepared for hormones to break up Liam and Felix, unfortunately. :(

I would keep them separate (except for supervised play times) until they are fixed. I know it feels like a long time, trust me, I had to wait two months to bond Louie to Dolla and Domino and it felt like forever! But then just like that, whoa, it's been 2 months! :D
 
Whiskerz: what everyone is trying to say is keep them apart until they are neutered, that way you can bond them with success.

Are all three of your rabbits, males or is one female and the other two male, or two females and a male?
 
Honestly, I would split up your 3 boys into totally separate cages.

By bringing in the 3rd bun, you have changed the group social dynamic.

This means, everything that happened before (bunnies liking eachother or not) no longer counts.

I encourage you to get comfortable with the idea that these 3 males may never ever ever like to be with eachother. That is a definite possibility, and you need to prepare yourself to house 3 rabbits in 3 different cages permanently. Some rabbits just will not fit together.

You may wind up with 2 males together in one room, and 1 male by himself.
The current status may switch - Liam and Felix may split apart, and Felix and Lewis wind up together. Anything is possible at this point.

You are going from absolute scratch again when it comes to bonding.

In my personal opinion, I wouldn't waste my time attempting to create a bond in such a hostile social situation, especially with unneutered young males.

My advice would be
- separate all bunnies into solitary cages.
- make it so they have personal space - not touching eachother.
- Disinfect all cage equipment with strong vinegar, and rearrange the C&C.
- change the orientation of the cages - don't have cages facing eachother directly (side by side with a bit of space between).
- leave it that way until everyone is neutered and fully healed.

If you really want to, you could do playdates in another room, supervised by you 100%. (I personally feel that is probably a waste of time with unneutered males in the situation)

IMO, bad blood can develop between two buns. I pushed too hard and fast with my two boys, and now they can't stand the sight of eachother :(. The one wasn't neutered, and it has been a personality clash from the beginning, fueled by hormones.

Back to square one... :hug:
 
What is actually too quickly and what exactly is the right amount of time.

Generally you want to leave the animals completely apart (not even cages touching) for a few days to a week. That allows the new animal to get used to it's new home without adding more stress and for the current animals to get used to the scent of the invader to their territory. Quite frequently a 1-2month quarantine is preferred to make sure the new animal is not carrying something nasty to your current animals. Tons of illnesses may not be visible immediately and people have had entire herds, flocks, whatever nearly wiped out or insane vet bills from a hidden illness and not quarantining.

After that you put the animals where they can see but not get to each other. Such as cages touching or 1 caged in the room with the others loose. You do that until they show no aggression toward each other and have settled down to a routine. That probably doesn't take long with a rabbit but it's still another few days to a week. With sugar gliders you could be at this step for months.

Finally you pick a neutral territory that neither animal frequents such as a bathroom, kitchen, etc... that you can block off. Place them at either end of the room and have a towel and squirt bottle handy to help separate them without getting yourself bit if a fight occurs. It's best to be familiar with common body language the animals exhibit when meeting each other or have someone experienced there. It helps to be able to separate before they fight but quite often anything short of blood shed is acceptable.

Depending on the animal it may be better to do this several times (seems to be the case with rabbits) or only once (works better that way with guinea pigs). If they are being left together after meeting you want to set aside a day you can watch them closely.

Humping is a dominant behavior. You upset the herd order and now they have to re establish who is boss. By mounting the other rabbit repeatedly that one is saying it's boss of the rabbit herd. If you interrupt that behavior you'll only make it worse. Also every time they fight and you separate them it will get worse. They will get more and more desperate to prove who is boss and exactly what order they all rank while remembering that the other rabbit meant bad things. Unless you are confident something has changed and they are more likely to get along it is best not to keep trying to introduce them. If they keep fighting, getting separated, put together, fight, separated, over and over again it will only gurantee they never get along. That's one reason it's best to wait, neuter, and then try introductions.

Overall this should take at least several days, probably a couple weeks, and possibly a couple months to have them caged together. Not 24hours.

rabbit.org has a bonding faq http://www.rabbit.org/faq/sections/introductions.html . They also mention something they call "coerced closeness". We do this with guinea pigs by giving them a bath together. The stress and disorientation of being soaked with water and standing in it makes them want to stick together and keeps them from getting territorial. For rabbits they suggest a car ride. I'm not sure if there are any other tricks like that since I haven't introduced many rabbits yet. Just tons and tons of other pets from hamsters and gerbils to horses with cats, dogs, chickens, quail, duprasi, degus, parakeets, sugar gliders, and likely something I've forgotten in between. The steps are pretty much the same and involve lots of time.
 
I separated all 3 boys yesterday. I plan to keep them separated until neutered and then I want to bond 2 of them and leave one in his own cage and a single bun.

Thats the plan :)

Thanks for all the help.
 
Sounds good! Another thing we do like taking bunnies on a car ride is to put them in a laundry basket on top of the dryer for a spin cycle, or even just being on the slippery surface of a (dry) tub can bring that "coerced closeness" that akane was talking about. I've also carried bunnies around the house for a bit in a laundry basket to get them a bit shaken up as well.
 
tonyshuman wrote:
I've also carried bunnies around the house for a bit in a laundry basket to get them a bit shaken up as well.
I had very good success bonding bunnies at the shelter by placing them in a carrier and swaying it back and forth. It could be a gentle swing just to keep them stressed, so they seek comfort from each other. If aggression occurs, then Imove the carrier up and down like an elevator and both bunnies stop in their tracks.
 

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