Worried over small fecals...

[Jenk]

I took one bun to the vet today due to herslowed fecal output and cranky behavior as of late. The vet felt gas in one area of her digestive tract. Figures...

Then I get home to discover that our male is passing small fecals; a few on the floor are downright tiny compared to his normal ones.

This issue seems to have just started; I'm unsure how hard to treat it at this point. I did give him one Simethicone dose and will give two more over the next two hours. But should I force any otheroral fluids, or wait and see how wellhe consumes his greens? (He won't getgreens until 8 pm, though.)

Thank you,

Jenk

 

[tonyshuman]

I'm gonna be brutally honest here: I think your vets are milking you for lots of money. My bunnies' fecals can be up to 20% smaller while they still are healthy, depending on the hay and veggie type offered. If things get worse than that, I give bene-bac and they're tip-top. I only give gas meds 2-3 times a year, and then it's to be very cautious--only if I hear a gurgling belly and they look uncomfortable. Do you go to Chicago Exotics?

 

[Jenk]

tonyshuman wrote:

I'm gonna be brutally honest here: I think your vets are milking you for lots of money.

Actually, my former vet did this; my current vet does not. And I've become much more discerning about which tests I'll have run and why. In other words, if the problem found still wouldn't be fixable (e.g., a severe blockage), I won't pay for the test that would serve for curiosity purposes only.

My current girl was showing signs of digestive discomfort (crankiness) and has genetic digestive issues. I've been taking her to the vet at the rate of four times this past year, which is great progress for the both of us.

My bunnies' fecals can be up to 20% smaller while they still are healthy, depending on the hay and veggie type offered. If things get worse than that, I give bene-bac and they're tip-top. I only give gas meds 2-3 times a year, and then it's to be very cautious--only if I hear a gurgling belly and they look uncomfortable.

My guy's tiny fecals thatI found were more than 20% smaller than his norm, I'd say. And his gut did sound louder than normal. I'm about to give him his third Simethicone dose. (I did see him grinding his teeth, but I don't know if he was just bruxing; I was too far away to hear him properly, and he stopped when I got closer.)

Do you go to Chicago Exotics?

Do you mean Midwest Bird & Exotic Animal Hospital? No, but I've heard stories about that place. I did take two buns to another exotic-only vet in the 'burbs for the first year of their lives. That vet did take financial advantage of me and my anxiety. (In fact, he greatly increased my anxiety.)

 

[Jenk]

So if my guy's fecals continue to be uber-small by this evening(if he were your bun), would you give sub-Qs by this evening? (I need my husband's help to administer them; he won't be home until around 6 pm.)

Thanks,

Jenk

 

[AmyBunny]

Personally if they are still small by this evening I would give subQ fluids to ensure he doesn't get dehydrated. If the simethecone isn't helping, then it's a good idea, and keep dosing with the simethicone as well. That's what I would do. Is he eating at all? I would actually offer him some pellets, or a treat, to see if he will eat something yummy... if he will eat a bit at least, it's a good indication that it isn't too serious at this point. If he won't eat at all, you will want to know so you can plan on force feeding...

 

[Jenk]

AmyBunny wrote:

Personally if they are still small by this evening I would give subQ fluids to ensure he doesn't get dehydrated. If the simethecone isn't helping, then it's a good idea, and keep dosing with the simethicone as well. That's what I would do. Is he eating at all? I would actually offer him some pellets, or a treat, to see if he will eat something yummy... if he will eat a bit at least, it's a good indication that it isn't too serious at this point. If he won't eat at all, you will want to know so you can plan on force feeding...

I again looked at the small fecals. They're very smaller compared to his normal amount.

At this time of day, he doesn't typically eat; so I can't use the food test. But he does anticipate greens at 8 pm. If he ignores those, I'll worry even more.

I was just in his pen to give a third Simethicone dose (at 2:30 pm, CST), and I'd swear that he was grinding his teeth while lying in the loaf position. I could hear his teeth gnashing a bit, and then I heard his gut gurgle immediately thereafter. (I was maybe two feet from him.)

He has snatched tiny bits of cotton cloth (from a canvas cover set down to offer the buns traction during their out-of-pen exercise time). I'm worried that even a small piece may have gotten stuck somewhere along his digestive tract. Ugh...

If it's not one thing with rabbits, it's another, I swear it.

 

[AmyBunny]

If he is hunching up, then yes I would be more worried. Is he drinking at all? I'd be giving the subQ when hubby is home. Also when you try him with the greens, stick to just romaine, and wet them down. Hopefully you have been quick enough and will be able to help him move the gas along.

Can you try some tubby rubs? Will he let you do that?

 

[Jenk]

AmyBunny wrote:

If he is hunching up, then yes I would be more worried. Is he drinking at all? I'd be giving the subQ when hubby is home. Also when you try him with the greens, stick to just romaine, and wet them down. Hopefully you have been quick enough and will be able to help him move the gas along.

Can you try some tubby rubs? Will he let you do that?

I'll answer your questions in order:

He was drinking water late this morning. I don't know if he has since that time. He had pushed around his water dish and spilled a lot of water since then, though.

Around 2:30 pm, I offered him a Romaine leaf, which he ate. He'll get his regular amount (pre-soaked in water) and probably some parsley tonight.

I have rubbed his tummy a little bit; it is firm with gas, and he only lets me mess with his gut for so long. I know that he's uncomfy, but I'm going to massage him a bit more and force him to move a bit tonight.

This all came on suddenly. I don't know if it's caused by shed fur (though I've been brushing him twice daily for weeks now), ingested material (what tiny amount he did sneak), or the sweet meadow hay that he ate earlier this morning. (Coincidentally, he's had gas episodes shortly after eating sweet meadow hay in the past. I'm starting to wonder if it seriously upsets his digestive tract.)

 

[tonyshuman]

Ok, I'm glad you've found a good vet now. I know that vet care in Chicago-land can be very expensive, and an unscrupulous vet can use that to their advantage. I think the simethicone was good. Some warmth for his belly may be good too, along with any rubs you can get in. I think since he has eaten, sub-q's aren't necessary at this point.

 

[Jenk]

tonyshuman wrote:

Ok, I'm glad you've found a good vet now. I know that vet care in Chicago-land can be very expensive, and an unscrupulous vet can use that to their advantage. I think the simethicone was good. Some warmth for his belly may be good too, along with any rubs you can get in. I think since he has eaten, sub-q's aren't necessary at this point.

It's the next day since I posted, and I'm just now reading your reply. Ooops...Well, I confess that I gave him sub-Qs last night.

He did wolf down his extra (water-soaked) Romaine and parsley just fine around 8:30 pm. But I was uncertain if the water he got from the greens made up for the water that he didn't drink between 10 am and 8:30 pm. I started worrying that he might not drink more water overnight and that I'd be forced to give him sub-Qs this morning anyway.

In any case, he's acting normally. He ate his pellets with gusto and passed a number of decent-sized fecals overnight. Yay!

Seriously, I suspect that he has this reaction to sweet meadow hay. All the times that he's had excess gas have coinincided with me feeding it to him. Whenever I've increased the amount as an extra treat, I've wound up giving Simethicone. If I am right, only I could possibly have adopted a bun who has such a sensitivity. (It's not enough to that I have one girl with chronic gut slowdown/abnormal fecals and another who acts normally until she's suddenly flopping in pain. )

 

[tonyshuman]

Sub-q's won't hurt any. Glad his poos are back to normal. I bet it is the hay--perhaps it has more sugar than he's used to which leads to GI bacteria issues.

What do you mean "acts normally until she's suddenly flopping in pain."? Flopping isn't usually a sign of pain. Is this a different kind of flop?

 

[Jenk]

tonyshuman wrote:

Glad his poos are back to normal. I bet it is the hay--perhaps it has more sugar than he's used to which leads to GI bacteria issues.

Most bun owners think that different types of hay won't upset buns' digestive tracts, and I never would've thought this the case for my guy; his digestive tract is less fragile than those of our two Mini Rex girls. But it's rather dodgy that our boy's had gas issues after eating sweet meadow hay. (One small handful a day didn't effect him;butwhen Istarted giving him two handfuls, he began having slight gas issues. Yesterday, I gave him a large handful--the first in several weeks--and he had serious gas about two hours later.)

What do you mean "acts normally until she's suddenly flopping in pain."? Flopping isn't usually a sign of pain. Is this a different kind of flop?

Not the relaxed kind of flopping; rather, I mean that she flopped down andcontinued shifting her position frequently due to the pain. (This level of pain occurred during her previous bout; it had never been that bad prior.)

We've run every test (except for an ultrasound, which makes no sense because surgery isn't an option for anything that could possibly be found). There's been definite cause pinpointed. Even worse, she eats/drinks/eliminates/acts normal right up until the time that the digestive discomfort occurs. Her last bout nearly killed me, because I was convinced that she wouldn't survive through the night. To my immense surprise and relief, I found her nibbling hay in the morning. (This after she was in such pain that she urinated on herself; she couldn't make it to her box. I gave her Metacam, doses of Simethicone, sub-Qs and put a low-temp. heating pad under her while I lay next to her.)

 

[AmyBunny]

Well obviously you do all that you can for them. It does sound like it was the hay perhaps. I would steer clear of it!



I also know a bunny who flops when gassy... she actually flops hard on the floor, and even slaps her stomach against her litter box, trying to alleviate the gas. Poor bunnies! We just have to watch them soo closely and go with our guts.

 

[tonyshuman]

I see, thanks for the explanation.