What color could these be??? Baby pics!

[Shayhara]

This is the second time I bred these two rabbits. Alex(chestnut agouti) and Ninja (broken chestnut agouti) the first time I got black, agouti,(both solid and broken) and martinized pointed whites.
This time I thought I had three martinized pointed whites (unshowable, but have people who love them for pets). Well I lost most of the litter at a week old. I saved two of the "white" kits, and now realize they are not white. They are broken some color or another. Obvious greyish coloring on rump and butterfly markings on their faces. Any ideas?? Both have red eyes? My people who where looking for a pointed white (as a pet) are going to be a bit dissapointed I guess. The one that is living with my other mini lop is a lot darker marked the the one who is living with he mini rex. The rest of the litter was agouti, and black, both solids and brokens.
I know its hard to tell at this age, but what are your thoughts?
1st kit -being fostered by a mini lop doe
at 1 week

at 1 week 6 days

2nd kit - being fostered by a mini rex doe

Second question - WallE (broken black) and Eva (self steel, or really dark sable) - In her first litter with Alex (buck above) she had black , siamese sable, and steel kits. This time she had a grey looking kit that died at two days, the rest are black except one broken grey kit. I thought it was a broken siamese sable but am not so sure. It almost looks to have banded fur, like a chinchilla or agouti. I know it is hard to tell at this age (almost 2 weeks) but just curious if you think it is siamese sable or something else?

Here is a picture with the first kit in question and the other kit in question (siamese sable?? broken grey kit) They have different parents and are unrelated, but the whitish one is being fostered by the other ones mom as its mom didn't have enough milk for the 11 babies she had and five died

Some random cute baby pics

 

[laylabunny]

For the first kits, I'm thinking ermine. I just had my first one and it looks just like that. For the second one, I'm not able to tell from the pics.

 

[HappyFarmBunnies]

For the first two kits (Mini lops, right?) I'm thinking maybe frosty? Which is similar to ermine, almost identical in fact. EXCEPT, ermines always have brown eyes. So I don't know what to tell you about the pink eyes. Are they really pink, or do they just have a ruby cast to them?

As for the second broken kit, I would say broken black.

 

[Shayhara]

Their eyes are red like a REW, thats what they looked like last night anyway. The other one isn't a broken black, there is a broken black in the litter it is much darker, I will show a picture of the two together tonight if I have time.
So they would be broken frosty? I can see the defination of the spots on the back and the butterfly on the face of the one.
Is that a recognized color for Mini lops??

 

[HappyFarmBunnies]

I think in Mini lop it's called a frosted pearl. But again, I don't think they're supposed to have red eyes. I also don't think they're broken; I think that's just the variation of the shading. As they get older, maybe they could be smoke pearls too. I don't know enough about the genetics of these colors though to know if it's possible. Can you tell us what is further back in the pedigree of the parents?

This website might be helpful. It shows adult pics.

http://www.rebeccasrabbitry.com/minilopcolorguide.html

As for the broken black, it's entirely possible to have two blacks of different strengths/shades.

 

[Nancy McClelland]

Cute, but not sure on the coloring.

 

[wendymac]

When I did a quick genetic "what if", the results were:

chestnut/agouti- 44.19%
Black: 6.44%
Opal: 6.39%
Fawn & Orange: 3.76%
Sable Chin: 3.76%
REW- 3.15%

So maybe opal?

 

[Shayhara]

so not opal, that I can say for sure. Guess we will wait and see.

On a further note the broken kit I am not sure of color on, doesn't have its eyes open yet, the others have for two-three days now. Still nothing. I know not to force them open, but how long do I wait before I do something??

Also I am SURE its not a broken black. That's the one thing I am sure of I will go looking for a picture of its back then you will be able to tell for sure that its not black. The face pics are deceiving as the nose and ears seem darker then the rest.

 

[HappyFarmBunnies]

Yeah they look too light to be opals. And because they have SOME shading they can't be REW's either. It must be something squirrely in the parent's backgrounds that we aren't aware of.

As for they eyes, I would wait maybe a day or two more. Then moisten a Q-tip and rub it gently along the eyelid. Usually that's enough to make them open.

Looking forward to seeing pics of the broken bunny. This is intriguing to me.

 

[Shayhara]

So I went to take pictures and .... the battery is dead, so its on the charger. Might have to wait till tomorrow for pictures. I cleaned the cage and put them back in already. I thought about taking the top off the nest box (covered cat litter box) as they are all up and moving around, but not coming out of the box. Then I decided, why rush it, just more poop and pee to clean up all over the cage! lol. What are the chances they will use the litter box?? their mom does the majority of the time, but sometimes leaves pebbles all around the cage, she especially seems to like to kick them under the feeder which then has to be removed to get them from behind it. I can't wait till I can build my own bottom for this cage! Anyway I decided to leave it be another day or too, while I think about what to put down on the bottom of the cage to help catch the pee etc as right now it is just the canvas bottom of the cage.

The people on another forum I am a member of are of the collective opinion that the two lighter ones are pointed whites, or possibly broken pointed whites, that are experiencing what they called chilled himi's. Learn something new every day I guess. They say when they shed out they will go back to only having the color on their points.

 

[Shayhara]

Forgot to mention. When I had the broken kit out (the greyish one, the last one I was asking about in the first post) I noticed it has an almost agouti appearance, it has a brown to it, like if you look really close some of the hairs are brown, black ringed like in an agouti, but its not the same brown as the agoutis I have had in the past, it looks a bit more grey then brown over all. Grr I wish I could get a good picture of it, if it even shows up in a picture. I think the brokens are the hardest to tell on, especially when they are not the blanket brokens.

 

[Bunnylova4eva]

Too cute! THe first two look frosty/frosted pearl. I really want to get a frosty as that's what my first rabbit way, but I couldn't find one anywhere.