Stasis, pineapple juice & Critical Care

[Azerane]

Hello there, I realise there's a billion threads on the stasis issue, but I have a few particular questions. Bandit and I have just come back from the vet and I just wanted to double check a few things. I'll give you a bit of the history first.

Yesterday, I noticed Bandit was a little gassy and had a few slightly mushy poos, not a lot, but still enough for concern. He only gets a salad in the morning, so I decided that when I fed him this morning, I would cut out the bok choy and brussel sprouts to see if it helped. I put him in his hutch last night at around 9pm with a clean litter tray. This morning at about 5:40am I went out to feed him and there wasn't a single poo or any pee in his litter tray. Obviously cause for concern. I fed him his salad and while he wasn't super enthused about eating, he did eat. At that time of the morning there wasn't much I could do except go to work and wait until the vet opened. On my "lunch" break at work 8:40am, I drove home to check on Bandit. He had eaten all his salad and pellets and there was some poo and pee in his litter tray, a good sign. If there had still been nothing, I was going to take him to the vet immediately. But since there was some, I went back to work and made an appointment for 1pm which we just got back from.

The vet said there's a lot in his gut, but that she couldn't feel many pellets. She gave him subcutaneous fluids and also a Metamide injection (which I'm assuming is similar or the same to the Metacam that people on here mention). I now have a bag of critical care for him which I'm somehow supposed to get in him

Now, here's my main question, she (the vet) suggested I mix the CC with some pineapple juice because the enzymes in it are good to help break down the stuff in his stomach. I did ask her whether the sugars would make things worse but she said it would be fine as it's such a small amount. So what I'm wondering is if I should definitely give the CC with pineapple juice, I was going to look for unsweetened tinned pineapple and use the juice from that. Should I perhaps use just a tiny bit of pineapple juice for taste and a little bit of water instead? Or am I fine to just go with the pineapple juice?

Also, any additional tips on looking after a stasis bunny would be great. He's currently in his set-up in the laundry with fresh hay and a clean litter tray so I know when he goes. He's reasonably lively, and I feel like it was caught in a reasonable time since he's also picking at hay a little, but I know getting his tummy moving again to form some pellets is the biggest hurdle. Is it a good idea to try and keep him moving around to stimulate stomach movement? And also, because pellets lack any moisture, is it a good idea to still give them to him today in his treat ball? Or should I just focus on getting the CC in him and having him eat some hay?

Also, I may have missed when she said it, but I don't recall her saying how long I should be giving the critical care to him, just today and then stop if he starts pooping like normal, or should I give it for a couple of days. She told me that she's there until 7pm tonight so can ring her anytime if I had any more questions.

 

[JBun]

Is he still eating a fair amount on his own?

 

[Azerane]

I don't think he ate much overnight, but at the moment he seems to be eating ok (though he's still settling down after the scary vet trip). I just offered him large a piece of hay from his pile and he took it and ate it straight away without any troubles at all. Although obviously one piece of hay isn't a fair amount, but willingness to eat shows to me that he would likely just go and eat if he felt like it.

EDIT: Make that a yes, he's just situated himself next to his hay pile to eat some.

 

[JBun]

Critical care is a feeding supplement to give your rabbit when it's not eating at all, or is eating very little. If your rabbit is eating fairly well on it's own then there is no need to be force feeding your rabbit. As for adding pineapple juice to it, I've heard of it being helpful, but personally I feel that when dealing with stasis, that you should be minimizing sugars as much as possible, as sugars and starches feed the bad bacteria that is often causing the stasis in the first place. So putting more sugar in your rabbit is just going to make it worse. But I think your case may be slightly different, because it seems very likely that it was one or more of the veggies that caused the gas and the stasis, so I don't think that a gut flora imbalance would be happening in this instance. Though if the gut doesn't get moving right away, then bad bacteria could start taking over.

You may be ok feeding a small amount of pellets, but I would encourage hay eating as much as possible. That is going to get the gut moving better than anything. I would avoid starches and sugars for now. If you feed any greens stick with ones that are the least likely to cause upset, like leafy lettuces, cilantro, parsley. And avoid all cruciferous veggies, including the leafy ones, like turnip greens, bok choy, and kale. If he will eat a good amount of hay and quite a few of his pellets, and is drinking ok, you will probably be fine without the critical care. If you feel like he isn't eating enough, then do the critical care. The pineapple juice is up to you. If it were me, I wouldn't. Critical care does have a small amount of papaya and pineapple already in it.

The metamide is a gut stimulant. It would have been good if the vet had sent you home with some metacam(meloxicam) as it is really important to get the pain under control. That will help get your rabbit eating on it's own, better than anything else. If you can still get to the vet, call and ask if you can pick some up. Make sure they give you a suspension liquid. Also, if your rabbit seems uncomfortable still, giving simethicone to get the gas under control, is also very important. You should be able to get it otc as infant gas relief. Dosage is 1cc every hour for 3 hours, then every 3-8 hours as needed. So if your rabbit is still reluctant to eat on it's own and still seems to feel uncomfortable, simethicone and metacam, and critical care if he won't eat much. Make sure he is staying warm, as their temps will sometimes drop with stasis. Also don't try and force feed him until he is warmed up. You can use a warm pack or warm towels. Tummy massages also help, and letting him run around as much as he wants to, helps stimulate the gut. This article expains the whole stasis thing really well.

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/ileus.html

If you don't already, give him a water dish to drink out of. Rabbits usually drink more that way. And make sure he's drinking. Moisture is very important to get the gut moving.

Edited to add: Watch to see if he eats a bunch of hay. If he does, and is drinking ok, I would just keep an eye on his behavior, and look for signs he is starting to feel uncomfortable again, otherwise, just let him eat and he may be fine and already feeling good and recovering ok, without having to give him any more meds.

 

[Azerane]

Thanks so much for your responses. He has had a bit to drink (he has a water bowl), I know he drank just before we left for the vet, and any time I give him greens, because I always wash them first there's always water droplets on them, every little bit counts. I may give him a dose of critical care, just to help him along a bit and see how it goes. I'm still undecided about the pineapple juice though, but if I do I'll look for unsweetened if they have it.

At the moment he doesn't really seem uncomfortable, he did yesterday when he was sitting a little funny and was a bit gassy, but not at the moment. He's not cold at all, another reason I actually have him inside is because it's much too hot outside for him today.

Is it weird that after he was sitting in his litter tray munching hay for 5-10 mins, that when I heard him jump out I excitedly ran over to look? lol. He left some little bunny poos in there. A small handful I suppose, some normal size and shape, some a bit darker which are a little smaller and softer. I'm guessing these droppings are the ones that the vet would have felt when feeling his gut. How long should I expect it to take for more pellets to form for him to pass? In a little bit I might try a tummy massage and give a dose of the critical care.

 

[JBun]

I think the pineapple juice is used for the enzymes, to supposedly break up hair that is causing an obstruction, and the enzymes only work if the pineapple is fresh. But since your rabbit got stasis from eating veggies, I'm not sure why the vet would be suggesting it. But whatever you think is best.

And no. It's not weird for anyone on this forum to get excited about rabbit poop. Most of us are the same. It's a really good indication of how a rabbit is doing health wise, as a lot of health problems will affect a rabbits poop, and it can tip you off that something is wrong with your bun. I always keep a close eye on my rabbits poop, each day when I clean out their litter boxes.

There's nothing better than a nice pile of fecal pellets, when your rabbit hasn't been pooping for a while. If your rabbit is pooping( and they are starting to look more like normal ones) and eating well, then I would say that he is probably ok now, but you still want to keep an eye on him and make sure that he continues to improve. He'll start pooping more as he starts eating more.

Also, it would probably be a good idea to not give him cruciferous veggies any more, as he apparently is sensitive to them. I don't know why some rabbit veggie webpages, say that those kind of veggies don't affect rabbits the same way as people. I've heard of, and read of, several instances of those kind of veggies causing problems for rabbits.

 

[Imbrium]

IF you mix pineapple juice into the critical care (I really can't say if the enzyme benefits would outweigh the sugar... though I'm leaning towards the motility med he was given being enough, especially since he seems to be feeling better), it needs to be fresh - NOT canned. the canning process denatures the enzymes, so you'd be adding sugar without getting any of the good stuff in exchange.

if he seems to have a fairly normal appetite, I'd skip the critical care entirely.

given that his issues seem to be gas-induced, I would cut the brussel sprouts out of his diet entirely, especially since it's considered a non-leafy green that should be very limited anyway. as for bok choy, only give SMALL amounts of it and only give it infrequently... assuming he tolerates small amounts ok, otherwise cut it completely. here's a good list of cruciferous veggies (the kinds that can cause gas) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruciferous_vegetables - anything "rabbit safe" that's on that list will need to be fed sparingly if he's prone to gas problems.

I'm glad he seems to be doing better - hopefully he'll be back to himself in no time!

 

[Azerane]

^Thanks, I had already cut out the bok choy and brussel sprouts this morning and intended to do for some time, if not forever. I may have introduced the bok choy a little quickly, which may be part of it. In any case, if I do try bok choy again, it will be in much smaller amounts and nowhere near as often.

Thanks for all the feedback and advice, it's helping me get through. I was a nervous wreck in the 2 1/2 hours I was at work this morning, waiting until I could make a trip home to check his litter tray.

Wish I'd double-checked the thread a moment earlier, I just gave him some Critical Care. It says 1 part formula to two parts water, so I used 1 part formula, 1 part water and 1 part pineapple juice. It made just over a tablespoon. I was curious so I simply held it out to him, he ate 3/4 of it straight off the spoon, then snubbed the rest, lol. I figured since he was happy enough simply to eat it himself that he's well enough that I don't need to force feed him the rest. The good thing is that he shunned the last bit of critical care for hay instead. Funny about the enzymes, the vet seemed to think that canned pineapple was still good in that regard, it's a pity because I just had half a fresh pineapple two days ago. Now I just hope the sugars don't mess with him too much. It was a decision between whether the sugars made things worse, or whether I ignored the vet's advice and still ended up with a sicker bunny at which point I would have to tell her that I ignored her advice and listened instead to the advice of people on the internet, haha. Not sure it would go down so well

He's sitting in his litter tray munching at hay again, so I'm hoping for another good result! And just as I write that he hops out... more bunny poos, yay!! No squishy ones that I can see this time.

 

[Imbrium]

wonderful! it takes a bunny person to understand the joy of poop, lol.

 

[ladysown]

you need to use FRESH pineapple juice not canned. It helps to break down blockages. Feeding papaya tablets can do the same.

The pineapple juice will NOT hurt him and will indeed help him.

If your bun is prone to getting tummy upset/gut stasis you could...


1. Once or twice a week give him some fresh pineapple juice to drink
Or
2. add some apple cider vinegar to his water (needs to be real apple cider vinegar)

 

[Azerane]

^I've just been reading that in other places online now too. A bit late, but he seems to be doing alright in terms of eating anyway, so I wasn't going to give any more critical care than the stuff I had already given.

More eating and bunny poos He's also been playing a bit, which is good. He hasn't done any binkies but he's done some happy hops with silly head flicks. He played the "sick bunny" card on me so now gets to stay inside all night instead of going out to his hutch, don't tell the landlord :shhhh: lol

It will make it easier for me to check on him if I want/need to though, and I figure the extra room to run around for a while longer will help with the movement of his gut, rather than being in his hutch. Obviously it's not an "oh he's pooping again, he must be better" thing, I'm assuming it'll be a couple of days before I can really consider him over the stasis, is that right?

I feel so silly for letting him get ill, I felt like I was doing everything so well and then this, but I suppose it's a good thing to learn from, just re-evaluate and change things to make them better. So glad he's going to be ok. Hoping to see a big pile of poo when I get up for work in the morning

 

[ladysown]

I feel so silly for letting him get ill, I felt like I was doing everything so well and then this, but I suppose it's a good thing to learn from, just re-evaluate and change things to make them better.

Not sure what you mean here by "letting him" get ill.
You didn't MAKE him ill. He got ill on his own.
What you did was get him better.
AND learned that your bun in genetically predisposed to not handling cruciferous veggies well.

Go on from there and stop feeling silly. You were responsive to your rabbits needs and that's all that matters.

 

[missyscove]

Some buns are just more prone to stasis than others.

The Metamide is metaclopromide which is a gut motility drug. I've given it for as long as a week in a rabbit with stasis.

I've personally never added pineapple juice to my critical care, although I do have some of those oxbow papaya enzyme tablets which they get on occasion.
http://www.oxbowanimalhealth.com/products/type/detail?object=1702

I usually force feed the critical care until they're eating their regular diet normally on their own when offered, and it sounds like your bun is already there.

 

[Azerane]

Right, so Bandit seemed to be doing quite a bit better later into yesterday. I cleaned out his litter tray at around 10pm, went to bed and checked it again at about 5:15 this morning, absolutely nothing in there again overnight. Obviously I got quite concerned, however 5 minutes later he'd left a small handful of pellets. Since then, he hasn't done very many pellets, I think there was another small handful between 6 and 10am, but between 10am and 2:25pm (now), he's only done about a dozen, I feel like he should have done more? He's still eating hay, but I'd like to see him eat a little more. He hasn't really seemed uncomfortable, and I bought some smithecone (or whatever the infant gas drop stuff is), but he hasn't been gassy since I bought it, should I still give him some?

I've been taking a log of things when I've noticed him eating/drinking/pooping etc to kind of track it, of course I can't watch him every second so I've obviously missed when he's been drinking (the level in the bowl keeps going down), but here it is if it's of any interest. I feel like today he's slowed down a little in the pooping department, but is it possible that there was more yesterday afternoon/evening because he'd had a build up in his gut? I'm probably just paranoid that he's not going enough now, he seems relatively happy. The trouble is I didn't keep track of exactly when and and how much he did when he was healthy

Sunday, sitting awkwardly, gassy
Sunday Night, between 10pm and Monday morning 5:30am, no poo.
MONDAY:
5:30am ate his (modified) salad and food pellets, though not enthusiastically.
By 9am Mon there were two small handfuls of pellets.
12:30pm drank water, ate some hay
1pm trip to vet. Metomide injection and sub-cutaneous fluids.
3:15pm, eating hay and small handful of pellets, some darker soft ones
3:55pm drank water
4:30pm gave roughly 1 tablespoon of critical care mixed with 1 part water and 1 part pineapple juice (canned)
4:40pm eating more hay, more pellets, less soft ones than before
By 5:50pm, more poo, more eating hay
6:30pm eating hay and food pellets, poo more pellets
6:50pm drank water
7-8:15pm more eating
9:25pm drank water, ate food pellets
10:10pm pellets in litter tray
10:30pm more water
TUESDAY (today):
5:15am no pellets/pee since night before
5:30am handful of pellets in litter tray, ate salad, pellets and hay, binkies
8:45am ate hay
10am-2:25pm 12-ish pellets
2pm eating hay
2:40pm (Now) eating hay, eating pellets, peed and small amount of pellets, half a dozen or now.

 

[JBun]

Remember that he is going to probably be pooping a little less because he wasn't eating for a while and then hasn't been eating his normal amount. When my rabbit had stasis, it took him two days to finally start pooping, but then he stopped again and it took another two days of hand feeding him before he started pooping again. So, I would think that as long as your bun is eating a fair amount still, and continues to poop, then he is still doing good. It can take a few days for them to get back up to normal. As long as he's eating, then he will be pooping too. But always keep an eye out for changes in eating or behavior. If he doesn't seem like he is feeling uncomfortable from gas pains, then giving simethicone isn't really going to do anything for him, but it shouldn't hurt either, if you feel like he needs it.

 

[Azerane]

Ok, thanks so much I've noticed that though he's still eating, he's not eating a huge amount, but if I go in there with him and hand feed him strands of hay he seems fairly eager to eat and will sit there taking strand after strand from me.

 

[missyscove]

I'm more worried when they don't eat than when they don't poop. One of their big ways they'll show that they're in pain is by not eating so if he's happily munching away then he probably feels pretty good.
The simethicone basically can't hurt. It may not help, but there's no harm in giving it just in case.

 

[Chrisdoc]

Sorry to see he´s been off colour but good to see he seems to be getting back to his old self. Having a bunny who´s not well is awful but with the right care, they can pull through fine. Yes, we all get excited about poops, it´s one of our favourite topics and good, round, even poops are good to see.

Keep us updated but he seems to be eating hay and drinking and I´m sure he´ll be binkying about in no time.

 

[Azerane]

Well, it seems I got my Bandit back again. I brought him inside after work and he raced through his tunnel and did a few funny little binkies. Now he's having fun destroying his hidey box.

Thanks once again, not only are you all a wealth of information and support, but you kept me from freaking out, lol.

 

[DeepSeaGoddess]

The vet I go to doesn't believe the pineapple really does anything except the moisture of it aids....he doesn't believe that pineapple breaks down anything but, it is the moisture that they are getting from it that helps. That said, I give my bunnies a fresh pineapple chunk as a treat every night, yes I used to believe it helped break stuff down but, they LOVE it, and since the moisture certainly can't hurt, them I give them one every night.

Whenever this happens to either of mine, I try to get as much fluids in them as I can through a syringe...yes that is fresh pineapple juice and water some times as well as now I keep critical care on hand in case I need to syringe feed them. I also give baby mylecon (simethicone drops) and metacam (pain meds) if I have them. Usually it only lasted a day or so with my bunnies and they bounced back pretty quickly however, the last time with my Lucy, it went for many days...to the point that she saw the vet 4 times and I doubted him when he kept thinking it wasn't her teeth but in fact her gut (long story in another thread). I should not have doubted him, she is her normal self and he was right...it wasn't her teeth. He didn't want to rush and just put her under anesthesia to file teeth......I'm glad he didn't because it wasn't her teeth after all.

But, just wanted to point out the opinion of my vet...that the pineapple itself doesn't do anything but the moisture they get from eating it or the juice certainly helps. Is this true or false? I don't know....they still love fresh pineapple so I give them one.:bunnydance: