Something is possible happening ?

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by Thumperina, Nov 4, 2017.

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  1. Nov 14, 2017 #41

    JBun

    JBun

    JBun

    Jenny - Health & Wellness Mod Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    You don't have to hold the skin tented up. You just do it initially to make sure to get the needle into the right place between the skin and muscle. As for administering too fast, you would need to ask your vet about that, but it sounds like you did a good job getting the fluids administered.

    GI blockage is when the digestive process stops or nearly stops. If she is still pooping some then she doesn't have a blockage. She has slow gastric motility, which if it continues to slow down from lack of eating sufficient amounts, could eventually develop into a blockage.
     
  2. Nov 14, 2017 #42

    Thumperina

    Thumperina

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    Jenny thank you
    I always insert needle in about the same spot (between her shoulders).. can this cause a problem? Should I try other places too?
    yesterday I went to the first vet to pick up more metacam, and asked her about baytril'
    She said injectable solution should NEVER be given to rabbits orally, it's very harsh for their stomach (this is what I also read online) - this was my gut feeling.
    She gave me new baytril - to try and see if it helps, I asked her what form it was and she said that they use tablets that they crash and mix with flavored base. It smells real yummy and Thumperina takes it wonderfully
     
  3. Nov 14, 2017 #43

    Thumperina

    Thumperina

    Thumperina

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    I also found oral syringes that work best for us for giving critical care. I was having trouble previously.
    Got them at Kroger pharmacy for free, they are only 15ml but I like how smoothly and easily you can empty them, I fill several syringes and put them in a cup with hot water so that the mixture stays warm.
     
  4. Nov 14, 2017 #44

    Thumperina

    Thumperina

    Thumperina

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    asked her about SMZ, and she said it's an older AB with not so wide spectrum as baytril... or probably they just didn't have it in stock
     
  5. Nov 15, 2017 #45

    Thumperina

    Thumperina

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    I have noticed when picking her up that her right leg is hanging forcelessly, I know her right hip has been in a bad shape for years (we never knew why she has got it this way) but I wonder if this is her major pain problem or just consequence of other problems ... I am posting her X ray... maybe somebody will have an idea.

    3924 Thumperina McKinzie   11-6-170001.jpg

    3924 Thumperina McKinzie   11-6-170000.jpg

    8022 Thumper Upton whole body   6-14-170001.jpg
     
  6. Nov 15, 2017 #46

    Thumperina

    Thumperina

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    and here are couple of X rays that the second doctor needed to take even though I showed him images from visiting the first vet (I hate when they do it... guess what, after he did this second X ray, he said that ultrasound would be nice, too)
    I know, there is more gas build up in her GI tract on the second round of images :(

    mckinzie1.jpg

    mckinzie2.jpg
     
  7. Nov 15, 2017 #47

    PaGal

    PaGal

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    just keep in mind that over time the syringes can get harder to give medicine with. I believe the rubber swells over time and then it can be hard to plunge. I like to keep extra around for this reason
     
  8. Nov 15, 2017 #48

    Thumperina

    Thumperina

    Thumperina

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    thank you PaGal!
    are you speaking about feeding syringes ? yes, it's easy to get new suuply of them in a local pharmacy

    I have a HUGE question about syringe for sub Q fluids. it is 60 ml syringe that originally came in a plastic tube that says it's sterile and use only once and discard. They provided my with supply of sterile needles but gave me only one of this syringes. So, after administering fluids I am supposed to replace the needle with a new one and keep it this way till the next time...
    However the syringe itself is exposed to air and germs from the air, I mean the inside of the plastic tube as it's kept between uses in a position of plunger all the way up (liquid emptied)
    I dropped the syringe the other day and asked for a new one but they said - just rinse it and use again...
    So I am boiling water, pour in a clean jar, cover with a clean plate, let it cool until it's still hot but not boiling hot and then rinse a whole syringe (without needle of course) in this jar and then put a new needle on before I administer the medicine. Is this acceptable way of doing it?
     
  9. Nov 17, 2017 #49

    Thumperina

    Thumperina

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    this last feeding / medicine intake she was sooo passive, but it's still so hard to make a decision to stop force feeding her and giving her the meds...

    I pray the Lord to take her if it's time for her to go. Take her fast and with little pain.
     
  10. Nov 20, 2017 #50

    Thumperina

    Thumperina

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    If somebody's wondering, Thumperina is doing not so bad ( not great, either)
    I give her twice a day critical care (trying to squeeze into her 50ml each time), metacam and sub Q fuilds shot . I wonder if this is how we are going to be till the rest of her days... my concern is that meds are expensive. Weekly: $22 for metacam, $38 for fluids, and about $10-14 for critical care. I can't afford it in the long run I know I can get critical care cheaper online but what about metacam and electrolyte shots?
    I still don't know what is going on inside her body and in her mind. Anybody know, if the right hip joint is destroyed, would she still have blood flow in that leg? when she hops. it looks like she is using both rear legs, but when I pick her up her right leg hangs down like she is not controlling it at all.

    also, if there are any other better ideas on pain control for her? how long can she take metacam with no damage to her liver, etc?
     
  11. Nov 24, 2017 #51

    Thumperina

    Thumperina

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    A question about sub Q fluids
    I will be out of the medicine for 2 days (Sat, Sun) because of Thanksgiving break everywhere. Actually I won't be literally out, but it will be more than 7 days since I started the bag.
    What can I do to keep my sick bun hydrated? to buy Pedialyte or give orally?

    In general, how long can I do sub Q fluids? do they make skin sore from everyday injections?
    She doesn't drink on her own and her vegies intake isn;t so great

    To decrease stress, I keep her together with her companion and still don't know what she eats VS what he eats in the daily veggie / food offering. Any suggestions on what camera I can install in location where they eat to monitor what she eats?
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2017
  12. Nov 27, 2017 #52

    Chamarith

    Chamarith

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    This is a sad situation indeed, but all I can give is compassion and empathy. My greatest fear is my virgin doe getting uterine cancer, but my old country vet advised against it because of the dangers of anesthesia and antibiotics. He has many years experience with farm animals and rabbits.
    I am a poor elderly man that cannot afford what you are doing to save your bunny's life. I do admire you. ☻☺
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2017
  13. Nov 29, 2017 #53

    Thumperina

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    thank you so much Chamarith , I hope your bun will be ok and no cancer for her!
     
  14. Dec 1, 2017 #54

    Chamarith

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    Thank you so much for your comment.
    After I adopted my little sweetheart I found out that virgin does over the age of 4 have an 85% probability of getting uterine cancer. I was instantly terrified because we bonded immediately, closer than any other animal friend that I ever had. After this horrifying discovery I did further research into "spay or not to spay." I learned that rabbits are very sensitive to anesthesia and antibiotics. My old country vet has many years experience with farm animals and many rabbits. He suggested that I not have her spayed. I took his advice over the overwhelming advice I found online. She is now 5 years, 3 months of age and is very happy and healthy. I do check every wet spot in her litter boxes for blood in her urine prior to covering the wet spot. The last time she say a cage was when she was 9 weeks of age. I am hoping that her freedom, the best possible diet, plenty of excessive and our 24/7/365 togetherness will win out over the evil "C".
    I have never loved and bonded with any other animal like her.☻☺ me&P


     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2017
  15. Dec 16, 2017 #55

    Thumperina

    Thumperina

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    I wonder if rates of possible cancer are higher or lower for does that had children. Anybody know?

    In a meantime, Thumperina is doing OK. I give her metacam and simethicone twice a day (if nothing gets in the way), she seems to be eating OK on her own. I stopped sub Q fluids. I still have a feeling that she would benefit from more water, I just don't know how to deliver it to her. Critical care is too much pain to prepare so I stopped feeding it. Its not hard to prepare, its just very time consuming to get it into small 10ml syringes (that need to be clean) and then into her. Small syringes are the only that I have success with.

    Not sure if I should give her metacam non stop..

    Can simethicone be given without limitations? I give her 1.5 ml each time, twice a day... no harm?
     
  16. Dec 16, 2017 #56

    Aki

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    Having kits doesn't affect the cancer rates at all - like for humans, being a virgin or not doesn't affect your health except in terms of venereal diseases which animals can get too. Like for humans, having youngs can affect the rabbit considering she can die while delivering, but it has no long term effects on her global health. Does get cancer because when they are available all year around, without cycles, which means they have constantely an insanely high level of hormones coursing their body. They just are not engineered to last long, which makes sense when you take into account the number of things which are out to get them - wild rabbits never reach 5 years anyway so it's more important for the species that they are able to reproduce fast and often rather than having individuals who can potentially live for long. Rabbits aren't particularly sensitive to anesthesia or antibiotics. Antibiotics can slow the guts a bit, but it seldom really affect their health, and if gas is used by a competent vet death during anesthesia is a rarity (it's around 1%, considering that most of the deaths are actually caused by a heart problem that wasn't detected before the operation). If you compare it to the 80% of cancer risk, I never hesitated a second to get my rabbits spayed.

    To give water, you just give it with a syringe, like meds. But don't do it if your rabbit is not deshydrated. You have to adjust metacam / simethicone / critical care by watching your rabbit. Nobody can tell you if she needs them without seeing her - if she's not in pain, you can lower the metacam. If she's not gassy she doesn't need simethicone. If she's eating fine on her own and that her weight is maintaining itself, she doesn't need critical care. If you are not sure, you have to discuss it with a vet.
     
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  17. Jun 4, 2018 #57

    Popsicles

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    I have found the post you were talking about about thumperina. How is she since this was written? The X-ray of her hip looks terribly painful and I’m amazed she has any movement at all, so I would definitely recommend longterm pain meds. And I don’t know what they are seeing on the X-ray that they think is uterine cancer because I can’t see that at all, and I’m interested why, if they think it is, they say they can’t operate? What are your main concerns now and I can try and answer? You’ve probably figured loads out since this was posted :)
     
  18. Jun 4, 2018 #58

    Thumperina

    Thumperina

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    thank Popsicle. After she was rather bad last November (I didn't see her eating anything except dry leaves in the yard at all) she perked up and was acting rather cheerful all cold months - with great appetite, good activity level, interested in life, etc. I even stopped giving her pain meds at some point. Then this May, she sort of declined again (I wonder if it was because she wasn't receiving pain meds) - wasn't eating and so on. But also hot weather arrived which is always bad news for outdoor rabbits (I don't think you even know this sort of heat in UK). I started both of them on pain med and critical care again, I also was giving them Sub Q fuilds but not for long, and she is doing better. She also looks and feels lightweight to me, but I just had a chance to weight her, she lost a little bit but not much at all (7.8 lbs now compared to 8 something in the past).
    She is also sort of picky, refusing some treats that she was accepting (but eats others), she also for unknown reason doesn't eat her favorite veggies in the morning (but eats them later, I guess morning is reserved for eating grass)
    I have a feeling she is in some sort of preservation mode - only consumes what sustains her life but not more than that (which is probably good). Not sure why, she leaves her own cecotropes uneaten, while she should have no problems to reach there.
    Speaking of her moving around, she is a quick runner and never had problems to move around (interesting, isn't it?) She wouldn't hesitate to jump down from a chair (Paul would never dare)
    I am concerned about her frequent breathing that I see rather often. Not sure if its from the pain or what.
     
  19. Jun 4, 2018 #59

    Thumperina

    Thumperina

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    Since two Xrays in November weren't very conclusive, they advise to do an ultra sound to see what sort of internal problems she has... To tell you honestly, I am so drained emotionally and financially taking care of their very multiple needs, I also have 8 cockatiels that don't get proper attention because of all the bunny stress. I myself had shingles outbreak not long ago, also from all the stress. My own kiddo is abandoned. She goes to a summer camp in upstate New York every summer, we just paid for it and it's not cheap (I would hate to tell her that she can't go). I work at school - paid hourly, now it's summer break so I am not making anything at all. Need another job, but not sure when - these bunnies are so high maintenance. Paul needs more diagnostics, I just asked the vet about cost of everything, and with every procedure done in the office, they would charge cost of exam if its done on a new visit...
     
  20. Jun 4, 2018 #60

    Popsicles

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    It definitely sounds like the pain meds and fluids are keeping her happy, so as time consuming as that is defo keep them up.
    An ultrasound would be a useful diagnostic tool at this point, but I wonder, if they don’t have the capability, and you don’t gave the funds, to perform surgery, is there really much point in diagnosis if there isn’t any way of treating? You seem t be managing symptoms okay with the system you are using now? Something to consider...
    That truly sounds exhausting :( its silly how much they can take over our lives! I really feel for you :( vet bills can soon rack up! Have you started him on the baytril? If that makes him better at least you can save on the diagnostics there?
     

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