Snuffles and X-Rays

[Mindy]

I have a 2 year old mini-rex female that was rescued around the 6 month old range... She was suffering from a major upper respiratory infection that turned out to be caused by the pasturella bacteria. We put her on Baytril, and now we use Azithromycin to treat her flare ups, but I know she'll never be fully healthy.

Because of her condition we declined to have her spayed, she is the only rabbit I have ever not had fixed, but apparently in combination with her size, the pasturella, and her highly anxious nature the vet thought it would be a better idea not to anesthetize her.

NOW however, she has a flare up gong on right now that just won't go away. I had her on the Azithromycin for a good 10 days, and she still had symptoms following, I took her to the vets and the vetrenarian has put her back on Azithromycin for another 14 days, and wants to do X-rays and a full oral exam under anesthetic on the 24th. Her vet has said that this will give her an indication as to how far her pasturella has progressed. She says the risk is lower for Sweet Marie since she will not have to be under the anesthetic for as long as she would if we were getting her spayed, but I am REALLY nervous about letting her go through with this.

Right now Sweet Marie is still eating and defecating normally, other then her sneezing, runny nose, and being a bit moody, she's acting ok. I definitely do not want to stress her out more by putting her through the anesthetic, and yet I don't want to prevent her from getting the proper medical attention she needs.

Does anyone have any advice for me to help me make up my mind? I don't know if anyone else has dealt with a similar X-ray procedure wither their rabbits, is it better to just keep treating her with long doses of antibiotics and hope for the best?

 

[Pipp]

It is possible to just give the bunny a sedative, which may be safer, less invasive than gas in this case. Something to check into.

My molar spurs bunny gets a shot of Domitor to put her under, and then a reversal agent to bring her out of it.


sas :bunnydance:

 

[GorbyJobRabbits]

I'm not being mean, I know people will hate me for it... But the virus isn't ever going away. She'll constantly have the flare ups until it's too much for her to handle. And maybe it's just the way I was raised....but I wouldn't make her suffer anymore.


and any rescue letting rabbits with the virus be adopted, shouldn't be open.


I'm extremely sorry for coming off so rude...but I just lost a lot of rabbits from buying one who had it. And I truely hate seeing animals suffer, and people have to deal with it, when they shouldnt.


Not to mention, you have a long list of rabbits under your name that you're endangering as well.

 

[albertabuns]

I don't agree at all with what you said Gorbyjobrabbits. Most, if not all buns have been exposed and are carriers, but not all will ever show symptoms. Manyrabbits will never have flare ups at all. I have dealt with chronic pasteurella before and even though they may have flare ups every year or so, they are not in pain or suffering. If the bunny has a good quality of life, why end it? That is very cruel. The descisions we make for our pets should always have their best interests in mind and if the bun is young, she should still have a lot of good years with a good quality of life.

 

[Maureen Las]

No one here has mentioned that more than 1 drug can be used at a time for a severe infection . ra7752 is seldom here anymore but I can give you his posts to read. Randy, whois a mod, andalso a wildlife rehabber has posted often in the past re. using drugs that are potent enough in combination . He often used azithromycon/Zithromax in combination with injectable bicillin .

Pipp, our administrator, sees a vet in Vancouver who uses oral chloramphenical in combination with injectable penicillin ( not bicillin as it is not available in Canada)

There are other combination that can be made. The problem seems to be that many vets are wary of potential issues with drugs and tend to underdose ; this , of course causes bacteria to grow immune to the drug being used.
I had one rabbit in the past who had upper respiratory issues that were chronic. I was prescribed baytril both oral and injectable numerous time and then begged the vet to give me azithrmycin. he did give it to me but in a dose that was too low.

Randy assisted me in learning to give bicillin per subqutaneous injection to her and it totally wiped out her respiratory issues.
Self medicating generally is not a good idea because we do not have the knowledge of vets, However, I recommend that you read through some of Randy's posts ( he works with the University of North Carolina Veterinary school so is not actually coming up with this info on his own ) and bring this info to your vet and/or another vet who woukld be willing to try something different

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=57554&forum_id=100

You will need to scroll through a lot of material in order to find info on antibiotics, however, all if this info is necessary for a rabbit owner.

You may want to check if your vet is giving the correct dose of azithromycin/zithromax

http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medication/Antibiotics/Safe_antibiotics.htm


A kg =2.2lbs

Vets in Ontario from forum members

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/view_topic.php?id=12548&forum_id=9

 

[Mindy]

Thank you so much for your response Angieluv, I am going to forward this information to my vet directly too. I can't tell you how much I appreciate the advice in regard to her treatment.

She is not at all an unhappy rabbit, and she eats and drinks normally (actually she's recently developed a fondness for yogurt treats), and her stools are normal as well. I don't think an otherwise happy rabbit should be denied the chance to live a normal life. Again thats my opinion. I really hope that for the few minutes a night that it takes to give her her antibiotics, she is able to live a happy life.

With regards to the other anesthetics, I am really glad to know there are other options. I still think I'll avoid the procedure if possible, to save her the risk, but if it becomes necessary than it helps knowing that there are other possibilities.

Thanks for the input everyone. I appreciate it.

 

[Mindy]

Marie went through her procedure just fine, although she was pretty cranky for the rest of the night. Her x-rays came in clear and I'm waiting on her cultures from the lab to see if we're not jut dealing with the pasturella bacteria. My vet put her back on the azithro and pending the results of her cultures will be paring it with a second antibiotic. Her symptoms have completely subsided while hitting them with ongoing antibiotics. Thank you again for all of your input, she's my baby and I want the best for her. I really appreciate it.

 

[Sweetie]

Another thing that you can do is give Sweet Marie veggies and fruit that will boost up her immune system so that she can keep fighting the infection. Also keep giving her foods that are safe for rabbits that are high in fibre. You cannot give too much hay and water along with some veggies and fruit. Keep her immune system up so that she can keep fighting off the infection.

Glad she is doing better.

 

[Maureen Las]

She is on azithromycin and what other antibiotic?

 

[Mindy]

As of right now she's only on the azithro, her cultures are expected back in the next few days and once the vet knows if there is another bacterial infection, or if it is still only the pasturella she will be assigning a secondary antibiotic.

She had mentioned an injectable penicillin, but I'm not certain as to whether or not she would make an adjustment to the azithro at that point. I'll fill in the details when I hear about them, I'll be interested to get some opinions before I set her on a dual antibiotic regiment.

 

[tonyshuman]

It is possible that due to regular treatment with zithro the bacteria has gained resistance. I would consider adding a second antibiotic as mentioned by angieluv. I also like Pipp's suggestion of injectible anesthetic instead of just gas. One other thing you may want to look into is nebulizing. We have a bunny that had pneumonia due to mechanical pressure on his lungs from an inoperable tumor. This caused lots of sneezing, and the vets didn't want to consider any other treatment until the pneumonia was resolved. We got a nebulizer second-hand (the only way to get them for less than $300, at least in the US, as the home units require a prescription and the portable ones are >$300) off craigslist for $40, and sterile saline solution from the vet. We did nebulization every other day for 15-20min and it resolved after a couple weeks. Antibiotics can also be used in nebulizer. We only used the saline because the pneumonia was not bacterial but had a mechanical cause. Nebulizing a solution of antibiotics may help your bunny by improving lung function and delivering the antibiotics more directly to where they are needed. Just nebulizing the saline solution improved our bunny's lung function to near normal. There are a few good videos on youtube about nebulizing rabbits from Fastuponrabbitcare, which is from a RO member. We chose to use a nebulizing chamber made of a travel carrier because the bunny is a netherland dwarf who is very wiggly and has a flat nose that is not suitable for most of the nose cones for nebulizers. The unit is also very loud because it contains an air compressor so he did not like being held while the loud noise was occuring.

 

[Mindy]

Hi again everyone! I want to give an update on Sweet Marie's status since her X-ray procedure. Her results showed no damage, which is fortunate but it also means we have done the right thing getting her on antibiotics as soon as we noticed a flair up. After the procedure she was pretty cranky for a day, but she perked up a lot for the days after that as I think she for once had completely clean sinuses. I put her on a regiment of Oxbow vitamins that a friend recommended to me, Vitamin C and a Papaya supplement. She had a flair up at the beginning of last January, and we put her on antibiotics one more time. Since then, (knock on wood) she has not had a single flair up and I am so grateful.
I can also tell that she is feeling better, she's jumping and playing, she's been passive and snuggly. I am so happy to see her acting like a happy bunny. From getting her, sick and swollen eyed, until today, where she is happy and playful there is such a difference. I chalk it up to the vitamins and keeping her in as stress-free of an environment as possible. I do not think she'll ever be completely free of the snuffles, but I have a lot of hope now that she can certainly have a good quality bunny life.

All the best :brownbunny

 

[Imbrium]

I'm so glad she's doing well and her snuffles are under control!

 

[HEM]

So glad to hear that she is doing better
We are hoping that she continues to get well!!!