Sigh... What breed is my bunny?

Discussion in 'The Rabbitry and Show Room' started by Genevieve's_Dad, May 6, 2019.

Help Support Rabbits Online by donating:

  1. May 6, 2019 #1

    Genevieve's_Dad

    Genevieve's_Dad

    Genevieve's_Dad

    Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2019
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Toronto
    Ok Guys, so my gf and I are having an INCREDIBLE first bunny experience, though it's certainly been a slightly rocky road.

    To start, there is my first post about snuffles... Genevieve has been on antibiotics for two weeks now (cultured at vet, Pastuerella and antibiotic checked to be effective) and though she seems to be getting better she still has some symptoms. That in it self warrants a separate post in health and worries me greatly...

    Now I'm pretty sure she can't be a full Flemish Giant... We got our bunny from a breeder on Kijiji, went up and saw her bunnies first hand... There was nothing alarming and she seemed to have four breeds. Holland lops, Mini Rex, Flemish Giants, and Giant Chinchilla. We met Genevieve's parents, a HUGE fawn doe (we were told 22-25lbs) and a smaller but still huge black buck (17lbs).

    I will try to post the pics of the dad and mom. The breeder seemed really nice, don't want to sound accusatory but am just confused as we were told this was a full Flemish Giant. She's 4 1/2 months and only 4.2lbs on my scale... Eats like a horse, just an incredible amount of hay and 1/4-1/2 a cup of young rabbit pellets and a handful of greens every day.

    I'm trying to contact the breeder but haven't had a response since I told her about the snuffles... I think maybe she thought I though she was responsible, but I know that her bunnies weren't sick at her place and that Gen probably got it from the stress of moving.

    She's affectionate and curious, licking us CONSTANTLY all over and always wanting to hang when she's not romping and binkying... We got the right bunny! However, I don't think she's going to be the 25lb monster we were told.

    Any idea what kind of rabbit we might have here, and what size she might be?

    MOM:

    [​IMG]

    DAD:

    [​IMG]

    GEN (most recent shot:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2019
  2. May 6, 2019 #2

    Genevieve's_Dad

    Genevieve's_Dad

    Genevieve's_Dad

    Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2019
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Toronto
    Ok more info...

    She was NOT fed unlimited hay at the breeders... I find it hard to believe her rabbits were under-nourished as they were HUGE, but I now know that isn't correct.

    Do you think she could be the daughter of those two rabbits? Is it possible her dad is some breed the breeder (not professional) mistook for a black flemish like a silver fox?

    ANY insight is appreciated... Is . 4.2lbs at 4months still going to be a big bunny? Once again, we are glad that we ended up with this loving bun but are worried that we don't know what she is!
     
  3. May 6, 2019 #3

    JBun

    JBun

    JBun

    Jenny - Health & Wellness Mod Staff Member Administrator Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2012
    Messages:
    8,074
    Likes Received:
    2,153
    Location:
    Utah, , USA
    She looks flemish to me, but no way to know for sure besides what you've been told. If she is 4 months old then that would be under the normal weight. She may not end up being over 20 lbs as all rabbits will vary in their growth, but she should still be pretty big. Keep in mind that she will still be growing for the next 12 plus months.

    One thing I would suggest is feeding more pellets. You have a growing rabbit, and a flemish at that, which needs a lot of protein and nutrients for growth. Unlimited grass hay and 1/4-1/2 cup pellets just don't provide enough protein and nutrients for a growing flemish giant, and this could be affecting the growth of your rabbit. Flemish in particular need higher protein and nutrients for a longer time, as they have a longer growth period, somewhere around 12-14 months. I would start increasing the amount of pellets until she is nearly being free fed them, provided she is still eating a pile of grass hay the size of her body each day.

    Not all breeders feed hay or unlimited hay. They usually primarily feed pellets, particularly to young growing rabbits.
     
  4. May 6, 2019 #4

    Loretta Brinegar

    Loretta Brinegar

    Loretta Brinegar

    Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2019
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Iowa
    If the breeder was an experienced flemish breeder she would
    never breed a fawn to black/steele. But she did. Do you know how many kits were in the litter? Sometimes flemish have huge litters and their growth won't take off untill they have proper room and nutrition. Your rabbit looks like a young Flemish to me. Some do not reach their full potential if the doe was old or not fed properly. Not much help but your Genevieve is beautiful. Good luck on the snuffles luckily thats one thing I've never had to deal with.
     
    JBun likes this.
  5. May 6, 2019 #5

    Genevieve's_Dad

    Genevieve's_Dad

    Genevieve's_Dad

    Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2019
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Toronto
    Thanks for the info guys!

    The breeder basically fed only limited hay with some pellets... We are going to SUBSTANSTIALLY increase the amount of pellets, I feel terrible but the breeder said she basically only needed hay and didn't advise regular greens at all. I knew this couldn't be right but I didn't realize we were still under-feeding her... I feel terrible!

    The breeders flemishes were all the size of those pictures, obviously their limited diet did not affect their growth much!

    Can they go though a "growth spurt"?

    Why is it bad to mix colours when breeding btw?
     
  6. May 6, 2019 #6

    Genevieve's_Dad

    Genevieve's_Dad

    Genevieve's_Dad

    Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2019
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Toronto
    I will add this...

    The breeder was DEFINITELY not professional, and in retrospect I should of known that something could be off the moment she advised scruffing her rabbits (which I refused to do, period).. However, Gen immediately licked my neck when I picked her up and we fell in love.

    Personality wise, she is an absolute dream. Once again, she groom us constantly without fail... Everytime you put a hand in her pen or put your face near her she will just go nuts licking it, when she's free roaming (most of the day) she checks in on us all the time to give us a lick and binky off. She seems to have zero personal space concept, though we respect her space she shows zero aggression or care if cuddled or pet when eating/sleeping/romping/peeing/etc... Never has thumped or flicked her heels, even after being picked up at the vets haha.

    Even though I think I made the wrong choice of breeder as a first time bunny parent, I do think we got the right bunny.

    Her sister was around the same size but a light sandy/tan colour. She was much less friendly, and definitely shy.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2019
  7. May 6, 2019 #7

    JBun

    JBun

    JBun

    Jenny - Health & Wellness Mod Staff Member Administrator Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2012
    Messages:
    8,074
    Likes Received:
    2,153
    Location:
    Utah, , USA
    What kind of hay are you feeding? Rabbits can usually do fine on just grass hay, but the lower protein in it will have an affect on growing rabbits by slowing their growth rate, though they should have excellent gut health being on it, which is also important. A lower protein diet may not affect the finished growth, but it can affect the rate of growth. So the rabbit will be slower to grow and get to it's final finished weight.

    If your bun is just going to be a pet, then personality and disposition is the most important thing anyways. That you have a happy, well socialized, and affectionate bun does at least reflect well in that regard on the breeder.
     
    somebunnylovesme likes this.
  8. May 6, 2019 #8

    majorv

    majorv

    majorv

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2011
    Messages:
    3,179
    Likes Received:
    535
    Location:
    Texas
    I replied to your other post, but the Dad doesn’t look like a Flemish...way too small compared to those scissors. Your rabbit may end up taking after the Dad in size, or be somewhere in between.
     
    JBun likes this.
  9. May 6, 2019 #9

    Nancy McClelland

    Nancy McClelland

    Nancy McClelland

    Larry Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2007
    Messages:
    16,315
    Likes Received:
    1,233
    Location:
    Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
    We had a pure Checkered Giant, 20 pounds at one year. She was almost 8 pounds at 4 months
     
    JBun likes this.
  10. May 6, 2019 #10

    SableSteel

    SableSteel

    SableSteel

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2018
    Messages:
    395
    Likes Received:
    265
    Location:
    Southwest USA
    Pretty common for breeders to scruff rabbits, especially flemish. I don't do it myself but it is what's taught to a lot of people.
    However, the fact that she crossed a black and a fawn just throws up red flags, especially because the black doesn't look like a full flemish. The flemish club is very picky about crossing colors, and crossing a fawn and black results in unshowable colors more often than not (such as gold tipped steels), so it's pretty much a cross only done when breeding to just sell pets. The black sire looks like a silver fox or new zealand cross. She probably won't get too much larger imo, she seems to have already grown into her ears and those are usually about the first thing to stop growing
     
    JBun likes this.
  11. May 6, 2019 #11

    Genevieve's_Dad

    Genevieve's_Dad

    Genevieve's_Dad

    Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2019
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Toronto
    Ok, please help me understand.. You think she might end up smaller than the dad? He was still very large, though not the size of the MASSIVE doe.

    I won’t lie, the concept of having a show rabbit is foreign to me, THAT is one thing that does not matter to me.

    I just want to know if we’re gonna have a big (10+ lb) rabbit when she’s full grown...

    Is any rabbit full grown at 4 months?
     
  12. May 6, 2019 #12

    Genevieve's_Dad

    Genevieve's_Dad

    Genevieve's_Dad

    Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2019
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Toronto
    UPDATE:

    The breeder was away, I spoke today and would like to clarify that!

    I would like to amend my previous statement saying the breeder is not a professional, I assumed it was a hobby but it is not. She addressed the issue of crossing black/fawn and admitted it wasn’t ideal but the personalities/sizes of the litters have been exceptional. I know she had rabbits that would do very well at show, however these Flemish were not bred for that purpose.

    She said her sister is 7lbs now, and offered to let us switch... Of course we love our bunny and won’t be doing that!

    She also said that there’s a good chance she was born in February not December and she got mixed up by one person bringing back two babies...

    My question is... If her (fawn) sister is 7lbs and Gen is 4, could that just be the colour difference or is she definitely a runt? They was no visible size difference when we first met them three weeks ago but we didn’t weigh them.
     
  13. May 6, 2019 #13

    Genevieve's_Dad

    Genevieve's_Dad

    Genevieve's_Dad

    Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2019
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Toronto
    A
    As in, I would like to state that I don’t think we chose the wrong breeder... She obviously REALLY cares about her rabbits and following up on their health.

    She definitely believes the black buck is pure Flemish, though she has had the silver fox question before.

    I just feel bad mouthing someone based of wrong information... When I was told that she definitely wasn’t a Flemish, and that mixing colours was bad... Plus with not being able to reach her, I just assumed the worst
     
  14. May 7, 2019 #14

    VioletRose

    VioletRose

    VioletRose

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2017
    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    38
    Location:
    NULL
    It's a shame poor mum has to endure crouching on cage bottom wires with not padding. A sure way to get sore hocks and just be plain uncomfrotable.
     
  15. May 7, 2019 #15
    If you aren't going to contribute to the actual topic of this thread then you need to refrain from commenting. Please refresh yourself with forum rules before posting again VioletRose.
     
    woahlookitsme and majorv like this.
  16. May 7, 2019 #16

    majorv

    majorv

    majorv

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2011
    Messages:
    3,179
    Likes Received:
    535
    Location:
    Texas
    Your rabbit does look Flemish even though I still don’t believe the buck is full Flemish. You’ll have to wait and see how big yours gets. She won’t be finished growing until about 10-12 months, so you have some time to wait.
     
  17. May 7, 2019 #17

    Loretta Brinegar

    Loretta Brinegar

    Loretta Brinegar

    Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2019
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Iowa
    Hi again, I agree she sounds like a great rabbit! Flemish are (to me anyway) the the most friendly breed! The licking is always sweet but could also indicate a need for some salt. You may want to get a mineral block/ salt spool for her. Don't beat yourself up about anything in the past feeding mistakes. We all had to learn and start somewhere! I'm a huge believer in alfalfa hay along with the grass hay. It has more protein, calcium ect.. than the grasses. And plenty of pellets for sure. As for the colors, the flemish have strict guidelines on what colors can be bred together to make the proper colors for showing. I've actually just been learning about this aspect of the breed the past few years. I'd only had white ones but when my kids were in 4H in the late 90's and early 2000's we had some colors. Now that I am full fledge "empty nester" I'm learning more as to possibly show some.
     
  18. May 7, 2019 #18

    Loretta Brinegar

    Loretta Brinegar

    Loretta Brinegar

    Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2019
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Iowa
    Geez I'm hoping I didnt just repost what I thought I posted this morning! But i think the dad looks full flemish. Picture angles on ears can make a huge difference so its not totally fair to judge him one pic. His face and body is shaped just like my current buck and one i had years ago. And knowing you talked to the btreeder is good. Having her say she'd taken two back and got birth dates mixed up makes sense and also could be a contributing factor on the snuffles. Id bet she'll get at least 10 pounds probably more. Some are more muscled and weigh more. Females get bigger than the males in that breed. In my opinion you'll have a big big girl very soon. Good luck!



    more
     
  19. May 7, 2019 #19

    JBun

    JBun

    JBun

    Jenny - Health & Wellness Mod Staff Member Administrator Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2012
    Messages:
    8,074
    Likes Received:
    2,153
    Location:
    Utah, , USA
    It's certainly possible she could be a runt. Plus if she was born in Feb, that can also account for the smaller size at 3 months instead of being 4 1/2 mo.
     
  20. May 7, 2019 #20

    VioletRose

    VioletRose

    VioletRose

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2017
    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    38
    Location:
    NULL
    Will do.
     

Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page

Group Builder