Should the rabbitry become a private forum? (All May Vote)

[TinysMom]

I've been reading all of the comments and doing a lot of thinking about this. I've also been hearing stuff privately, etc. (which is fine - people can contact me privately if they want to - I appreciate it!).

My head is spinning. Part of me says "don't make it private" because then it looks like we're "hiding" something. It also feels like it divides the forum even more into "breeders" vs. "non-breeders".

With that said - leaving it the way it is feels wrong too. It shuts the door to many discussions that might help some breeders.

I've come to realize that it isn't the people who come in here and judge breeders that cause me the most problems. I can deal with that - we have the rules that I can pop in and post and then I have the "right" to correct them.

But it is the breeders who cause me the most stress - the ones who won't "let it go". The ones who feel they should be heard. The ones who add comments (and I don't even remember now who posted it - its a random comment from the other thread that came to me ... of "where do you think we get meat"?).

Those are the things where I can't point to the rules and say "stop it" because they're making job even harder by insisting that they be heard.

I suppose I could just lock threads - I don't know. I hate to do that.

But its also hard to deal with complaints from members (privately) and I feel caught in the middle.

I guess I just hate confrontation. Perhaps I will either just step down or add a moderator who can handle conflicts only (Ali...you'll probably the one I'll call since we talk all the time anyway).

I will say that a lot of it comes from our newer members/breeders .... a lot of our breeders who have been around a while are really good about waiting for me to come into a thread and deal with it - or contacting me about threads.

I am glad at least to see ideas being shared and having people talk.

 

[tamsin]

I've voted no. I can certainly sympathise on how hard it is to manage a forum with multiple points of view though

I was kicked off a forum a while back for not being a breeder. I'd been a member for over a year, never got involved in arguments or even heated debates. I'd posted odd helpful replies and mostly read and learned. They decided they didn't want any non breeders anymore.

I've never bred rabbits are have any intention to do so, that doesn't mean breeders have nothing to teach me or me them. There are plenty of areas where they have experience that can be useful and I think it is a shame if people decide not to take advantage of that knowledge just because they disagree with some aspect or some of the people within that group.

I also think it works the other way. If breeders cut themselves off from pet owners or people that work in rescue because they have different goals they are cutting themselves off from a wealth of valuable information.

I can certainly understand that it's difficult sometimes to interact with people with wildly different view points and when some people are openly hostile. I don't think segregation does either party any favours though.

 

[pamnock]

I agree - private. Anyone is welcome as long as they "behave"

 

[Daddy Buggs]

Looks like the 43rd post ended the Poll?

If not: I'm brand new here.My 2nd post, I'm a 53 male pet rabbit owner. However my father , now 84 ran a meat rabbitry for 25 years on which I helped out. He would not sell or give away a rabbit for the purpose of being a pet. So I know both extremes. I have a small clue as to the problems going on in this board. I like this quote from pg 1 "I may start by taking the Rabbitry posts off of the sidebar if that's technically possible.

People wanting to read the Rabbitry can go there, but there won't be random Rabbitry posts catching people's eyes."

1.Have it an opt-in section,2 Allow the option for people to "Block" any offending forum or one they could not conform to the rules in.3. The pet people REALLY need the knowledge and advice that only the "Breeders" can offer in terms of care of rabbits of all types.4 I'm a member of a paid forum, not about rabbits, They have rules and state in the "terms of agreement" that "This is not a democratic forum our rules are in place for a reason and you may be banned at the discretion of the moderators"....

Please allow someway for the pet owners to get the help from the breeders that is really needed...
Regards,Joe

 

[TinysMom]

The poll should still be open...I did not put a time limit on it.

 

[naturestee]

I am not a breeder. But as a rescuer, the breeders here helped me a lot when I was fostering a mama and babies, and also when I raised an orphan baby. I would like to see a way that us non-breeders can still get this sort of emergency advise.

Alicia does bring up a point that having a closed breeding discussion area could also bring up more questions with suspicious people than having the open one does in the first place.

I think what would be a good idea is to have a closed general forum for potentially offensive material, whatever that may be. Anyone who starts a flame war in there can be locked out but still have access to the rest of the forum. I've seen "offensive threads" forums work in other places. They're also very nice for political discussions, religion, or anything else that gets people hyped up.

FYI: this rescue person likes going to rabbit shows and likes most responsible breeders here.

 

[GorbyJobRabbits]

naturestee wrote:

I am not a breeder. But as a rescuer, the breeders here helped me a lot when I was fostering a mama and babies, and also when I raised an orphan baby. I would like to see a way that us non-breeders can still get this sort of emergency advise.

Alicia does bring up a point that having a closed breeding discussion area could also bring up more questions with suspicious people than having the open one does in the first place.

I think what would be a good idea is to have a closed general forum for potentially offensive material, whatever that may be. Anyone who starts a flame war in there can be locked out but still have access to the rest of the forum. I've seen "offensive threads" forums work in other places. They're also very nice for political discussions, religion, or anything else that gets people hyped up.

FYI: this rescue person likes going to rabbit shows and likes most responsible breeders here.

Thats what I ment above, and agree completely with you

 

[jeanluc_pippen_merry]

Hello,

I'd like to share my thoughts on the issue, and hope that i am not treading on toes being a new member.

Impo, i believe that the forum should stay open because there are people out there such as myself, who would like to breed one day. Though it's not something i am considering in the near future, it's definitely a hobby i am considering doing somewhere down the line. I come here for information on all aspect of owning/breeding rabbits as well as to meet and learn more through other rabbit fanciers.

I think that people should have a right to share their views, however they should also understand that when there are forum rules, everyone is expected to follow and adhere to them, and if they do not then those particular individuals should be (if at all possible) banned from posting in a particular forum. This way those who are capable of discussing a topic without becoming emotional and turning threads into a flamewars will still be able to get the information needed from the forums.

Just wanted to add that if by people not following the rules is causing you stress (and im sure it's the same for other mods) then i strongly vote for bans, or even for a private breeder forum. Even though that may affect how much i get out of the site, at the end of the day it will be the result of a few immature people who can't participate in conversation without getting personal and attacking people. And as unfortunate as that is, maybe that's what is needed to drive a point home. But i think rules for each section and then banning those who do not follow them (possibly suspension periods before a perma ban) might be a better idea rather than blocking everyone because of a hand full of people.

 

[woahlookitsme]

When viewing everyones posts I have alot of agreement and really like the way everyone is talking out.
I voted i have another opinion and am sharing because

I really agree with the 2 different rabbitry forums where maybe the more offensive thread is not advertised and kept private from people who cannot follow the rules or where banning from the site or thread for an amount of time is upheld. I must admit i may be one of those breeders who could not drop it but im not sure if i really was. Maybe i should have asked first but im sorry if i was.

I love helping other people on this forum and love guessing breeds especially when they are breeds i know not many people will think of when they see a mix(like a brit )
I think the only thread i do not visit except once is the rescue me thread but thats only because i have no room to rescue and my mom would kill me. Although i would be open to helping transport but anyways. Like others have said i really think rescue people and breeder people can coexist ,they might not agree with each other (although i do not discourage people from rescue) and certain topics are hard to stay out of but the respect is definitely not found when roaming through the boards and im glad we are allowed to express our feelings.

 

[Blaze_Amita]

I would like the rabbitry section to remain open so long as people can be mature. I understand that it is harder for you, as the mod, to take on all the stupid crap when people can't be mature, so if closing it down to all but breeders is what it takes to make things easier on you, I'd vote that way as well. If you did the two seperate forums, one for strictly breeders and then the other the breeders could still go into both forums and thus chat there.



Though two seperate forums can be a problem as well. I can see the pros and cons to a few of the thought trains. I haven't posted in a long time because of starting flame wars or anything else. I know how to bit my tongue when something agitates me but I also know that several topics I keep off of here, ie the meat breeding, and there are times when I am trying to find someone to talk to about it, I'm like the blind leading the blind when it comes to meat breeding.

 

[Cheyrul]

I voted "I don't care, not a breeder" because I feel like I am probably one of the naughty rule breakers (extremists, of any kind tend to provoke me and I like to poke them, so sorry). I do want to say, having this forum open has truly helped me with our LAST litter. And the one prior but this one because it was so large and I did not know about calf manna or oats or supplementing. I truly appreciate that and promise to try not and break rules.

 

[funnybunnymummy]

Please don't close the rabbitry! I've learned SO much from the breeders here. I think maybe a co-moderator for Peg may be the solution (one who's not afraid to put members in the litter box if they can't behave! ).

I do think the idea upthread of creating a separate forum for "What breed is my bunny?"is an excellentidea since so many new members ask this question. First off, I can imaginesome ofbreedersare tired of answering the same question over and over. PlusI know quite a few petowners/rescuers have learned theirbreeds and can usuallymake an educated guess too. But more than that, when the new members ask this question (usually in the intro threads), we encourage them topost in the rabbitry and I think thatmay make them feel free to postin other threads in the rabbitrywhen maybe it would be better if they just read that forumand learned before feeling free to make comments in there. Not saying the new members are the problem, but I have seen some heated threads between the older members and the newer ones in the rabbitry. (Does that make sense? It's late here and past my bedtime!)

I'm divided on the idea of opening a second private rabbitry area. Mostly because I think the breeders might eventually abandon the open forum for the private one. And then how would it be any different than if we just made the rabbitry private in the first place? I really don't want to see the rabbitry closed to the general membership. I think there's just too much for members to learn from the breeders. (And I do think the breeders can learn from pet owners who post there too. )

JMVHO

Hope that helps!

Rue

 

[Ashleighh]

Nancy McClelland wrote:

My hope is that all here are mature enough to discuss any topic from rescue to raising rabbits for meat. If they aren't mature enough not to engage in personal attacks because they don't like a topic or disagree with someones' opinion they my vote is to ban them. I've always believed in having all forums open for discussion. Also believe that what George Carlin once said is so true, "God must love stupid people because he made so darn many!" The reason I included that quote is because twice here someone with a limited command of the English language not only totally missed what I said, but they directed some pretty snarky comments at me too. I was very civil but I did tell them that they either need to read and understand what is said here without getting personal or that they were too dumb to be on here without a wrangler to keep them from placing their foot to deep into their own digestive tract. Also, I ratted them out to the admin her who do an exemplary job--this is one of the finest on the net.

Couldn't have said it better myself, Larry.

I love reading this threads here though, so I'd hope it wouldn't become private

 

[lelanatty]

I am a breeder, and I would very much like to see this forum stay open to everyone. Although it may get heated at times, talking about breeding and its more controversial topics is the best way to educate everyone so that we can all be on the same page. Talking it out is usually the best way to come to an understanding. We only get into problems when we forget to use civil conversation techniques.

It is very important for all of us to communicate and not be shut out from each other. In my mind, closing the Rabbitry area to breeders only would constitute that we have given up on reaching an understanding between breeders and house rabbit advocates. This would be a very closed-minded move on all sides, as forums were made to promote open discussion. At least with the rabbitry area open, there is opportunity for both sides to see each other's point of view.

Perhaps a solution would be opening a new sub-forum specifically for controversial topics, so that it can be more closely monitored if need be, but please do not cut off the communication and opportunity for understanding.

 

[Jynxie]

The rabbitry and show room is one of my favourite sections. I love seeing the baby pictures and learning more about the colours as well as genetics. I also like reading about people first getting into showing.

I don't think it should just be for breeders because I really enjoy it and I don't think a few bad apples should ruin it for everyone.

I agree maybe we should get a few more moderators to make sure people aren't behaving properly if it's hard to catch everything.

I think people should get the message that... Keep your opinions to yourself if you don't have anything nice to say, specially when it's already been asked of them in this section.

 

[Stone_family3]

I'm not a breeder and I very much do enjoy this section. I don't know if you're able to do so, but why not after asking once for the subject to be changed if it isn't just close down the thread or remove it.

Unfortunately no matter what you do there will be people who feel their opinion is more important to others.

Thanks for letting me give my two cents. I hope a conclusion can be reached swiftly.

 

[TinysMom]

I've read and reread and reread yet again these posts in the whole thread - at least five times each. I've spent a lot of time thinking about it, praying about it, and reflecting on what I feel I can handle as a moderator.

Here is the way I see things....

People are most in favor of having the rabbitry remain public for everyone. The second-favorite idea is making it private but so folks can opt-in.

If we remain public - that means that discussions like meat-breeding, culling, euthanizing, etc. are out. With the help of breeders I'll put together a list of definitions for some words (like culling) and we can have it pinned and direct folks to it. I will also put together a "welcome to the forum" letter for breeders and ask our greeter Dave (wabbitdad12) to let me know when new breeders post in the introductions area. I will also pin the letter here in the rabbitry area so we can direct new members to it.

The downside of this: continued limitation on discussing certain aspects of breeding (sometimes frustrating to some breeders).

The upside of this: the feeling of openness - that no one is left out and can see the discussions.

Now let's look at the second favorite - that of making a hidden/private forum with access to non-breeders. I'm guessing it would be password protected or something. All who are part of it could post about any aspect of breeding, including the topics mentioned above that would not be allowed normally. A second idea based on this idea is that the "hot topics" area could be for breeders only with an open area for breeders here on other topics.

The downside of this: I see this splitting the forum a bit...and causing more of a division between breeders vs. non-breeders. Even if we use the hidden forum for hot-topics only, I see the potential for breeders hanging out there more than the main rabbitry forum and folks missing out on good discussions.

The upside of this: No (or few) limitations on topics for discussion.

I'm going to post this first so folks can understand where I'm coming from - then I'll post my thoughts in the next post.

 

[TinysMom]

As I look at all this and weigh these options, I have asked myself many questions.

By the way - I'm not the one making the final decision - but I will be presenting my input to Pipp and then I'm sure the final decision will be based upon what everyone has shared.

I started thinking about this forum - the history of this forum - the purpose of this forum, etc. etc. etc

In the beginning - this forum was actually started by a meat breeder if I remember right. But when I joined sometime later, I honestly don't remember there being discussions of breeding, etc. It was mainly a group of rabbit slaves who got together to discuss their pets and enjoy talking about rabbits.

When the management of this forum changed - it was decided to try to reach out to breeders and have a rabbitry section. It was a place where breeders wouldn't be banned simply because they were breeders....a place where we could discuss things.

But because the board was mainly pet-centered still at that time (this is in my opinion) - we were asked to refrain from discussing meat breeding/eating meat and other things that would be disconcerting to pet owners - like culling/euthanasia, etc.

I remember once sharing information on how to deal with an abscess at home and being attacked and thinking, "But I was only trying to help people and educate them..." - and someone expressed to me that while my intentions were good and noble - the fact was that having that information "out there" might lead some to try and treat something at home when perhaps it was more serious. It wasn't that I was wrong myself - but it was the way that the information could be used and handled by others.

I was upset and felt judged by the reaction of others - but looking back on it now - I see why what I posted was not appropriate for this forum at that time.

The fact is - in this age of the internet - there are other rabbit forums "out there" and some of them probably lean more towards breeders, etc. I just did a search on google for "rabbit" & "forum" and came up with what looks like 15 of them (of course WE were at the top of the list).

So it isn't like we're the only forum out there....

I kept going back to "but we're limiting freedom of expression"...and I pictured the idea of someone going into a packed theater and yelling "fire" when there is none.

Sure - they had freedom of speech - they just didn't use it appropriately.

That brings me to ..... the next post!

 

[TinysMom]

My conclusion I've come to is......this forum is so unique in the fact that we try to welcome ALL people - pet owners / rescuers / breeders - and we try to support them all in the best way we can.

I think to go with a private forum - even if it is open to non-members also - goes against that trust and what we've built so far.

I really feel that it is best for us to go ahead and say "look - we enjoy discussions - but these are not allowed here. For those topics - pm a moderator for an appropriate alternate forum".

If we lose some of our breeders to the alternate forum - that will be sad....but hopefully - our forum here will be so much fun (I'm going to go back through old threads for some ideas) - that breeders will want to stay here also because they'll be able to not only talk about stuff - but hopefully feel appreciated by other members.

I am going to talk to Pipp about implementing a sort of "three strikes" rule but not for banning as much as...I don't know. I hate banning people (I was banned twice from this forum before new management).

My thoughts go along this route...

First strike - a warning letter from a moderator (which is also stored elsewhere)

Second strike - "litterboxed" - an area we have where the member can only see the library and the litterbox while moderators try to work with them to help them understand what went wrong. Sometimes a group of people may be litterboxed together for "private discussion" and working through things.

Third Strike - account suspended for 72 hours or a week or something after a period of time in the litterbox again to try and resolve things.

Fourth Strike - banning? I don't know. Depends upon how long its been since earlier problems.

My final thoughts...

This leads me with the task of coming up with some sort of policy that is a bit more clear on what we allow - and a letter stating that for all new members or breeder members.

I also need to come up with a list of terms like culling, etc. that can be pinned in the forum.

I also want to find a way to make the rabbitry "fun" again for folks...I have some ideas I'll pull from the past.

Input is welcome and wanted.

 

[Watermelons]

I personally voted to keep it open.

Im not a breeder, but i really do enjoy reading some of the stuff that happens in there, including topics about culling.

Its a very educational section of the forum, and really just like the saying if you cant say anything nice, dont say anything at all... If you dont like whats happening in there, just stop looking. Maybe on the side topics in that section can be better identified so people who want to avoid that section dont accidently click it.

I have pet rabbits, cute fuzzy cuddly little things, yet I know when some of my snakes get bigger I may need to feed them rabbits. Currently I feed my snakes rats... well I have a pet rat too. And people being so touchy on the topic make me afraid to confront breeders and ask for their culls for my snakes, I dont want to get chewed out because people are so touchy feely about topics, and I think in this case, closing out the rabbitry from the public will only cause that issue to escalate, because more people dont get to see what happens in the real world. It becomes more foregin to them and therefore more wrong in their eyes.

Its the real world, its just what happens, same thing happens with our beef.... they were once cute cuddly calfs, and now their on our dinner plates. We can tell the farmers that their not allowed to murder cows or we can just ignore the issue, and let life move on. I stand behind always saying, if you dont like it, dont look.... I think I use that way to often but I love it.

I really would love to see the Rabbitry kept open and I think its a valueable part of the rabbit community, keeping pet owners and breeders together.