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Personally, I think that the very idea of giving a rabbit vinegar water and Vitamin C is a far worse idea than anything anyone here on RO has ever suggested. That cannot possibly heal her properly.

Is that all you guys are doing for her? What is going on, exactly? Is there more to the story than what you are telling us?


It has been 6 days since this has happened. I know that you can't tell if she is hurting or not, because rabbits hide their pain VERY well. You also can't visually see if she is infected or not (Infections don't always cause swelling)

An infection may make her barren, unable to become pregnant or give birth again. At the very worst she may die. It is important to find out what exactly is going on inside her body.

The vet will do an examination for infection, then help you choose the correct medication and treatment for her. They will teach you how to give any shots that you might have to give her. Bring the penicillin along with you too.

Please, for Minnie's sake, take her to the vet. Only irresponsible, backyard breeders would let this go on for so long without a recognized treatment method. Right now, you guys are making yourselves and your rabbitry look really bad by not getting proper medical attention.

I really hope you'll prove to be responsible breeders. Even the best breeders take their rabbits to the vet when there is possible infection. It's the right thing to do!
 
Does anyone know what the theory of the vinegar is? Seriously, it sounds like this leader is some sort of witch doctor wannabe.......
 
Pennie the only thing cider vinegar does is help the rabbits to absorb nutrients. it WON'T help wth uterine infection and neither will vitamin c.
 
Well, if i put vinegar in my bunnies' water...... they'd drink less and get sick from that.

I understand home remedies..... we do them ourselves with the horses, and sheep, goat.....

If she's getting better, that's great, but I would have had her to the vet the night she kindled and had trouble.

I understand how it's so expensive to take them in, and how bad the economy is. I just think in such a dire situation, maybe something could be worked out.

Poor girl. Give her a nose rub from me.

 
If this is a money problem, you could always offer to do some work for the vet, like cleaning kennels or what not in exchange for seeing and treating Minnie.

This may only require an examination fee; I don't know how else she would be tested, but you can always ask and see what the payment options are.

I think the vet might be open to helping out two young people trying to become responsible breeders. Just approach politely and explain the situation.
 
The vinegar water helps to strengthen the uterine walls and also helps with vinegar, I don't know why we still have to give it to her then.

Minnie's stomach isn't as swollen any more and she is acting so much more like herself. We aren't going to breed her in the future.

The reason my 4h leader has been saying don't take her to the vets unless we really think it is necesary is because she doesn't want us spending hundreds of dollars on Minnie, because she won't be able to be bred again.

We can always go out and buy a new brood doe.
And yes we have wanted to take Minnie to the vet but my mom keeps saying no, she is listening to my 4h leader not anyone on here.

Plus, my 4h leader didn't say for sure Minnie had the infection. I am actually thinking that Minnie might not have it because she isn't showing any more symptoms that she was showing. I hope she doesn't have it but if she continues to have a swollen stomach than we will take her in to the vet.

ETA: Many vets around here don't have high survival rates of rabbits surgeries and all.


 
NorthernAutumn wrote:
Personally, I think that the very idea of giving a rabbit vinegar water and Vitamin C is a far worse idea than anything anyone here on RO has ever suggested. That cannot possibly heal her properly.

Is that all you guys are doing for her? What is going on, exactly? Is there more to the story than what you are telling us? I'm sorry, but EXCUSE ME? You think we're lying and not telling the god dang truth? What do you THINK we're not telling you, cause I would love to freakin' know. What do you mean what is going on exactly? We're telling you EVERYTHING.


It has been 6 days since this has happened. I know that you can't tell if she is hurting or not, because rabbits hide their pain VERY well. You also can't visually see if she is infected or not (Infections don't always cause swelling)

Actually, I can well tell, because she's acting like her self now. On Tuesday, it was hard for her to hop, because of her back, but she's bouncing all over the place now.
Click to expand...


Our leader said if she didn't make it 4 days, she would most likely die. Well guess what, she's acting normal now and she's made it way past the 4 day mark. On Tuesday, she acted as though she was in pain, but now she acts as if this thing never happened.

LuvBunniz, it's NOT animal cruelty. It's not like we're not feeding her, or not giving her meds, because we ARE. That may beanimal abuseover in your neck of the woods, but since you don't know the US, don't assume. And it's not like you'd get my number to call AC on me anyways. I'm doing nothing wrong. It's called home remedies and it's working.


 
Bo B Bunny wrote:
Does anyone know what the theory of the vinegar is? Seriously, it sounds like this leader is some sort of witch doctor wannabe.......
Click to expand...

No. She is extremely knowledgeable in this kind of stuff. It's not like she's making this up. We already told you guys that she's saved many does by giving them the stuff we're giving Minnie. She knows what she's doing and has MUCH more knowledge that many doctors I've EVER spoken too.

Why can't anyone understand that?


Emily
 
NorthernAutumn wrote:
I think the vet might be open to helping out two young people trying to become responsible breeders. Just approach politely and explain the situation.
Click to expand...

Completely out of the question. You wanna know why? Look at our economy..do you think someone is going to give FREE treatment? NO. Everything's all about $$$ these days.

The Exotic place I talked to will charge a $68 EMERGENCY fee, not sure about regular. But they're not going to give us pay plans (NO vets in our area do that; no matter what the situation is, none.)

I'm not saying that we wouldn't take her to the vet. I'm just explaining the vet's stand in all this.

Emily
 
BlueSkyAcresRabbitry wrote:
NorthernAutumn wrote:
Personally, I think that the very idea of giving a rabbit vinegar water and Vitamin C is a far worse idea than anything anyone here on RO has ever suggested. That cannot possibly heal her properly.

Is that all you guys are doing for her? What is going on, exactly? Is there more to the story than what you are telling us? I'm sorry, but EXCUSE ME? You think we're lying and not telling the god dang truth? What do you THINK we're not telling you, cause I would love to freakin' know. What do you mean what is going on exactly? We're telling you EVERYTHING.


It has been 6 days since this has happened. I know that you can't tell if she is hurting or not, because rabbits hide their pain VERY well. You also can't visually see if she is infected or not (Infections don't always cause swelling)

Actually, I can well tell, because she's acting like her self now. On Tuesday, it was hard for her to hop, because of her back, but she's bouncing all over the place now.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Y'know Emily, I don't know why you flip out all the time. That was an honest question, as you guys have not given very informative updates in the last few days.
We are all wondering if any additional care was given.

I'm sorry you take everything as a personal attack. The whole situation is sad, and everyone on here is trying very hard to support you guys, despite your aggressive reactions.

Why not offer your labour to the vet, as I suggested. That's called barter, and many people do it in tough times. You can at least ask...
 
NorthernAutumn wrote:
BlueSkyAcresRabbitry wrote:
NorthernAutumn wrote:
Personally, I think that the very idea of giving a rabbit vinegar water and Vitamin C is a far worse idea than anything anyone here on RO has ever suggested. That cannot possibly heal her properly.

Is that all you guys are doing for her? What is going on, exactly? Is there more to the story than what you are telling us? I'm sorry, but EXCUSE ME? You think we're lying and not telling the god dang truth? What do you THINK we're not telling you, cause I would love to freakin' know. What do you mean what is going on exactly? We're telling you EVERYTHING.


It has been 6 days since this has happened. I know that you can't tell if she is hurting or not, because rabbits hide their pain VERY well. You also can't visually see if she is infected or not (Infections don't always cause swelling)

Actually, I can well tell, because she's acting like her self now. On Tuesday, it was hard for her to hop, because of her back, but she's bouncing all over the place now.
Click to expand...


Our leader said if she didn't make it 4 days, she would most likely die. Well guess what, she's acting normal now and she's made it way past the 4 day mark. On Tuesday, she acted as though she was in pain, but now she acts as if this thing never happened.

LuvBunniz, it's NOT animal cruelty. It's not like we're not feeding her, or not giving her meds, because we ARE. That may beanimal abuseover in your neck of the woods, but since you don't know the US, don't assume. And it's not like you'd get my number to call AC on me anyways. I'm doing nothing wrong. It's called home remedies and it's working.
Click to expand...
Y'know Emily, I don't know why you flip out all the time. I'm not flipping out, but I get extremely upset/frustrated when ya'll can't understand something so simple. That was an honest question, as you guys have not given very informative updates in the last few days. Well it just so happens that we do go to school....;)
We are all wondering if any additional care was given.

I'm sorry you take everything as a personal attack. Excuse me?When did I think it was an attack?The whole situation is sad, and everyone on here is trying very hard to support you guys, despite your aggressive reactions. :expressionless

Why not offer your labour to the vet, as I suggested. That's called barter, and many people do it in tough times. You can at least ask... They'll just say no. The vets around here do not allow it.
Click to expand...
 
Everyone calm down please. !!!!

There is a difference in thinking here that is causing so much animosity.

Most of us believe in giving a rabbit, any rabbit, the most compassionate, loving , respectful treatment possible. Most of us feel pain when a rabbit feels pain.

Your 4H leader is teaching you to breed for a purpose and then move on. The animal bred then becomes disposable. This is the way people treat farm animals and livestock in many parts of the country . Rabbits are oftentimes considered livestock .
You don't spend a fortune on livestock if you can replace it.

The problems here is that if you were onANOTHER forum with other people you would have a lot of people agreeing with you .

But that is not the tone of RO. We are out for the individual rabbit and the rabbit's needs.

I just spent $600.00 on my rabbit's dental work because he is like my child and I love him.I will go without things for myself so my rabbit can go to the vet.

Individuals who feel rabbits are livestock do not do that.
it is a different mindset altogether

Maureen
 
ETA: Sorry Maureen we posted at the same time...


Amanda, barter is the word used to describe what happens when two people trade their abilities.
Eg.
A farmer will trade two bushels of apples to another farmer for a chicken. Both people get something good out of the deal.

My idea was that you girls could offer to do some hard work for the vet, like picking up dog poop, cleaning kennels, walking dogs, whatever they need. In return, the vet would look at Minnie. Both you girls and the vet would get something out of it.


Emily, I am very sorry that you find this discussion so upsetting. However, on the Internet, most people consider TYPING IN ALL CAPITALS and using BOLD to be rudely yelling at someone. I don't think that is what you are trying to do, I hope?

I understand that you are upset. RO members are too. We all want the best for Minnie. We are all trying to give you our best ideas to make sure she gets better.

However, she is your rabbit. Not mine. It is not my responsibility to make the choices, but I want to be sure that you guys have all the information you need in order to make your choices well.

Whatever you decide is what will happen. Good luck to you both.


edited for clarity :)


 
Barter is what people did before coin/paper money was widespread. They would trade goods or services. Example- a farmermight trade eggs for cloth. At my work, you can say we barter when we ride-share: one person drives one day, another the next, etc.

I don't see what meds you are giving her. Vinegar and Vitamin C are not medications, they are legally considered as dietary supplements when used in this fashion.

I don't know how it is in your area, but animal cruelty laws in many areas include denying medical care to a sick/injuredanimal to be cruel and inhumane. For example, in my city a few months ago the police confiscated a dog with a large tumor on his foot that had gone untreated and was causing the dog to limp. It was benign, it wouldn't have killed the dog, but it did make him uncomfortable. He was brought to the shelter and the lump was removed. I think he was returned to the owner, who was developmentally disabled and might not have known enough to take the dog to a vet.

This also includes livestock. If a farmer has an obviously sick or injured cow, he is expected to have the vettreat it or put it down humanely. There's a lot of livestock vets around here because farmers can and douse their help.

Now, I'm not calling you cruel. It's impossible to really judge without seeing things first hand. But I am very uncomfortable with the care Minnie is getting.

I think Angieluv made a good point- is she livestock to you or a pet? Would it make a difference in the quality of care you give her? If you consider your rabbits livestock, are you willing/able to make the hard choices including humane euthanasia for animals that a vet could cure but you can't on your own? I'm not saying Minnie needs to be euthanized either, but you need to figure out what you will do for her or your other rabbits and what you won't.
 
I think Emily was using bold to show the answers apart from the questions she was responding to. However, I got the "flipping out" feelings too LOL!

I think that Maureen explains it very well. Some breeders aren't going to feel the "PET" or "Part of the family" sort of thing.

Ultimately, she is your rabbit, you have to take care of her, and accept the outcome of your decisions for her.

However, on this forum, we tend to go with the "if you aren't sure.... take her to the vet" theory. For one reason, we cannot be sure online and we are not vets. For another, we are very sensitive (for the most part) to rabbits as Maureen has said.

If you ask for our opinion, you're going to get it....... and arguing with 99% of the forum about it won't help.


 
"The reason my 4h leader has been saying don't take her to the vets unless we really think it is necesary is because she doesn't want us spending hundreds of dollars on Minnie, because she won't be able to be bred again."

Omg, so because Minnie can't breed again she isn't worth it? You can just buy another doe to refuse medical care to?

As for the other time you where told to take a rabbit to the vet, that I remember, was on SC. Your rabbit got an eye infection and you IGNORED it. All you did was clean it. Yet another case of untreated infection, I think I see a pattern.

If you do not have the money to take a rabbit to the vet you odviously do not have the money to breed properly. Lets say you have a litter born and something happens and part of the babies are say attacked once weaned? No vet care. What if you have a doe that had trouble birthing and ripped a few legs off? Suffering babies.Or like something I went through where a doe ATE all her babies but one and left it with no legs, tail or ears and part of it's skin gone? What then since you do not have the money to take them to get them put down?

If you have money but your mom will not let you use it to treat a rabbit you should not be breeding till you can.
 
BSAR said:
Click to expand...
"The reason my 4h leader has been saying don't take her to the vets unless we really think it is necesary is because she doesn't want us spending hundreds of dollars on Minnie, because she won't be able to be bred again.

We can always go out and buy a new brood doe."
Click to expand...
I was also very taken back by this statement . :shock:"We can always go out and buy a new brood doe":?Well thats not very fair to Minnie right now is it? Thats like saying that its ok to let her suffer and die because you can just go buy another one! She cant breed again so oh well. Thats what people running puppy mills or backyard breeders say..:shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock:
 
BlueSkyAcresRabbitry wrote:
Please pray for her.
Gosh, why isn't anyone who is helpful on???
Emily
Click to expand...


I just want to point something out. You both ask for people's help here and there are lots of EXPERIENCED breeders and owners here that are trying to help you and all you want to do is listen to your leader? There is something wrong here.

In my own opinion, I think that you girls are best suited to doing rescue work or just being pet owners. You really shouldn't be breeding anymore. I understand that everyone learns and that you have to start somewhere. When I first started I had a mentor whom I trusted but I also had many other people who I listened to also. I did a TON of online research as well as read every book out there. I have contacted the American Rabbit Breeders Assoc. too many times.

I really hope that you stop breeding rabbits till you become a little more responsible. Responsible breeders take their rabbits to the vet when it risks the life of the rabbit. Obviously some things can be mended with home treatment but there are some things that a vet should be seen for.

Rabbit breeding is by no means meant to be profit making. I can't begin to tell you the amount of money I have invested and have lost. Time off of work, vet bills, sleepless nights. Currently, I am helping hand raise a litter that I think mom just isn't producing enough milk. Thank heaven that I have the experience to deal with that.

My point in this post is to ask you not to come on here and tell us that our advice is not as good as your 4-H leader's when you asked for the advice in the first place.

Sharon


Edited for spelling.....I'm tired :)
 
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