Potential surprise

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neejchee

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Hi guys, I have posted a couple of questions on here before but haven't been on for a while, so will give a bit of a re-introduction before I ask my questions.

In September I bought two mini lop does, one was 8 weeks and the other about 9 weeks, and they are not at all related. They instantly bonded despite having VERY different personalities - I was amazed at just how much personality such little creatures can have! - and have been close ever since.

Samantha, who is the slightly younger of the two, is much more sociable with people and regularly climbs up anything she can to get into our arms for snuggles and face licks, whereas Miranda is a total snob and will only seek out snuggles if she feels she is being ignored (my phone regularly gets either bumped out of my hand or pulled out by her teeth so she can put herself into my hands instead) but neither like the other to be out of sight, and always sleep snuggled together even on hot days.

I had originally planned on taking one or both of them to a breeder for a stud when they hit 6 months so they could have a litter before desexing, as I have family who wanted rabbits and thought it would be nice to see them grow up and know they were going to good homes. I had even worked out which colour bucks I would prefer to put them with. Then I asked about it on here and was quickly convinced that it was not a good idea, so have decided to get my girls desexed and tell family to instead get their rabbits either from a rescue or a breeder.

Recently they have started humping each other a bit. Not a problem, I watched to make sure it wasn't getting nasty and they were both doing it, so aside from making a note to myself that it might be time to get them fixed I didn't think much of it. Sammy seems quite clumsy with her humping, which seemed to fit given she is the smaller and more placid of the two, and gets bored quite quickly, whereas Miranda goes at it like a pro and won't let up! At first Sammy just ignores it, but then she starts to get sick of it and moves away, but Miranda would follow. Even after removing her, giving her time to calm down and have a snuggle or treat, more often than not when put back in she would go right back to humping Sammy.

Sounds like Miranda is the randy teenaged boy, yes? Then she got a bald patch on her back, right where Sammy's mouth is when she humps. Sammy may not be so aggressive with it, but given how much they had started annoying each other with it I decided to separate the next humping session. When I grabbed Sammy off Miranda's back I swear it looked like the was a pink worm quickly sucked back up into her body!

Sammy came from a registered show rabbit breeder, who told me she was a doe. She's got thick dark fur so wasn't easy for me to even find the bits on (Miranda was SO much easier for me to confirm sex!) but when I did manage it looked like girl bits. Now that I've had a good look the genitals don't seem as distinctly penile as they did when Sammy was aroused, but I think I see small bald spots where testes would come through.

It seems Samantha may potentially be Samuel.

So now that I've put you all to sleep with a novel about how we got to this point, if anyone is still reading I have some questions.

Can a male rabbit who's testicles have NOT yet dropped get a proper erection going, or was I imagining that creepy worm?

If he can, is it possible for him to get a female pregnant before they drop? Sammy would be 4 months and 1 week old.

Miranda is approximately 4 and a half months, although I wasn't given as exact birth date for her as the woman was getting rid of a surprise litter from her mother's rabbits. She has grown quickly and is bigger than Sammy (her nickname is fatso, she LOVES her food) but I don't know if that means she's a little older than I thought or just a big pig. I know they shouldn't be allowed to get pregnant so young, but will being bigger make it any safer for her at all or is it purely an age/maturity thing?

They've been separated since I saw wormy and Sammy will be getting knackered ASAP, but I'm concerned about the potential for Miranda to be pregnant, especially so young. If she is, will she survive the birth? I've hear and read that rabbits often have either stillborn first litters or the kits are live birthed but don't survive long, but then I have also read that this is just because people let them breed too young. Either way, is this true?

More out of curiosity than anything, if she is pregnant and all goes well, what colours would you expect from a solid black buck with a chocolate father and a doe who is either broken orange or broken sooty fawn (she's come through darker on her ears and nose over the last month or so and I'm not really sure anymore)?

If you've finished reading this epic post, thank you! I'd really appreciate some answers/advice.
 

WillowRabbitry

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If you get Miranda spayed, I'm pretty sure it will terminate the pregnancy.
 

selbert

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That little wormy sounds a lot like a willy! Exactly what my buns looks like when he gets excited (booked in the vets for the snip on Tuesday!) Rabbits are sexually active from an early age, around 4 months, so there is a chance your girl could have some babies. I would have the boy neutered (or take him to the vet to check/book the castration) and leave the girl.
If you get the girl spayed then if there are babies, they will certainly be terminated.
Not sure what colour the babies will be, but if you have a litter be sure to post some pictures!
Hope this helps!

:bambiandthumper
 
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There's always a slim chance she's pregnant, but a buck is typically not fertile before the testicles descend. They can show humping behavior before they're fertile, but four months is about the time bucks will start maturing sexually.
 

honeybunnies

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I'm guessing an answer to your question, as even a mating with my mature doe doesn't always take. I think even if they did mate, with your doe being a little young for breeding, she could quite possibly absorb any kits, as her body isn't quite ready to breed yet. One could only speculate really, as each bunny is individual. Either way, I hope your little doe will be fine :highfive:
 

FreezeNkody

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Male rabbits can also "suck the plumbs up" so when you checked you may not have seen them. Exactly what my male lop did when I checked and after I was told he was fixed. That was a lie. I have 4 rabbits 2 unfixed males and a fixed male and female lol
 
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Male rabbits can also "suck the plumbs up" so when you checked you may not have seen them. Exactly what my male lop did when I checked and after I was told he was fixed. That was a lie. I have 4 rabbits 2 unfixed males and a fixed male and female lol
That's true, they can...there would be empty sacs then. If the OP only saw bald spots where they will be then I'm thinking it's more likely they haven't dropped yet. I learned a long time ago that nothing is absolute though. ;)
 

DogCatMom

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Flemish Giants, being larger rabbits, take longer to reach certain "developmental" milestones than smaller breeds.

To the OP: maybe take the two "girls" back to the breeder for a recheck on sexing. There's a phenomenon known among breeders as "the Sex Change Fairy" that seems to visit very young rabbits, changing supposed girls into boys and vice versa. If that has happened here, the breeder will be able to say **for sure** by this time.

Then you can make your decisions with full knowledge.
 

Azerane

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Yes there is chance your girl may be pregnant. While unlikely given the young age of both of your rabbits, rabbits are also notoriously well known for reproducing at a young age. While the risk to the kits is certainly a worry, I would be more concerned about the health of your doe. If she is pregnant, giving birth so young and having growing kits inside her when she herself is still growing is a big concern. You have the option to get her desexed now which if pregnant would result in a termination but takes away any risk that pregnancy and birth brings (though of course the anesthetic is also a risk but if you're eventually going to get it done anyway it's a bit of a moot point). As for the boy, I would also get him desexed as soon as possible as you said you are planning, make an appointment with the vet to make sure he's good to go as far as surgery goes.

If you do decide to wait and see with your doe, yes there is the option that she may not be pregnant, however if she is, you need to understand the likelihood that the kits will not make it (due to strain on young mother and being a first litter), and your doe might not make it either.

It's a hard decision, but best of luck with whatever you decide :)
 

neejchee

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Thanks for the responses everyone. The day after I posted I checked Sammy out again and yup, there were fleshy beans on either side of wormy's hiding spot! I've got him in to be desexed next week, but the poor dude is SUPER depressed without Miranda! We're talking barely eating, not playing, not interested in anything, sleeping all day style depression. I actually thought somethin was physically wrong and was prepared to rush him to the vet when my sister accidentally put Miranda back in with Sammy and he was IMMEDIATELY happy again. Miranda has missed Sammy too, but has shown it by becoming really overly attached to my daughter, whereas Sammy just isn't interested in life anymore. I suppose it isn't surprising given that from the moment she/he came home with me Sammy was a very sociable bunny.

Anyway, I found a temporary cure for their loneliness until Sammy goes under the knife. I bought this cute little santa dog tshirt thing for miniature dogs and it's about Miranda's size (I'm pathetic like that, my golden retrievers have Christmas hats too) and Miranda was wearing it when Lisa put her in with Sammy. They were SO happy to be together again, they were rubbing cheeks and snuggling up together and grooming each other's heads and wouldn't move more than an inch apart, but Sammy didn't try to hump Miranda once. I thought it was great and Sammy must have been having a hormone surge before and maybe we could get to the desexing before the next one, but after about an hour Miranda's shirt slipped off and Sammy was on her back in a heartbeat. I put the shirt back on and sure enough, Sammy was back to being a n innocent! The poor bugger is so confused by the tshirt that he doesn't even try to hump her!

Obviously I won't be trusting them alone, because eventually either it'll slip off again or Sammy will figure it out, but for now at least they can have some G rated supervised time together. :)
 

pani

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That's an adorable resolution, neejchee! :} Hope everything works out for Miranda and Sammy. Good luck with the desexing!
 
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