Possibly Snuffles?

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BlueCamasRabbitry

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I have a 5-week old kit that has nasal discharge, matted fur on the front paws. She is sneezing/coughing, and is opening her mouth like a fish (trying to breathe?) when I hold her. We thought maybe she just got water down the wrong way? Is she choking?

What is this?! Is it snuffles? Who do I treat it with, if there's anything - and could her littermates already have it?

I have seperated her from her littermates/mom, put her in the cage above, but will be moving her inside for quarantine very shortly.

What should I do about her nursing? She is eating pellets, drinking water, eating hay, acting fine other than these symptoms. Should I supplement her milk with milk replacer since she's still nursing?

What about the other rabbits? Should I disinfect everything?

How did she get this? The rabbits haven't gone anywhere since the show this weekend and she didn't go, neither did her mom. The last time any rabbits were off my property for a show was in November of 2009, and I've taken a few to 4-H meetings.

I had 6 rabbits at the fair, they were all vet-checked and passed (although the girl wasn't a vet, just the superintendent.)

Help!? She was perfectly fine yesterday!

Emily

(Repost - Had troubles with my other thread... sorry!)

 

BlueCamasRabbitry

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UPDATE!

Okay, about ten minutes ago I was looking at the baby when I saw there was a piece of hay hanging out of her nose. I couldn't reach it with my fingers (too fat), so I got some tweezers and pulled it out.

I'm thinking this is what was causing all the mucus, etc.?

She seems to be breathing easier now, not breathing so much through her mouth. Still some snot, but I mean there's going to be, right - since I just pulled the hay out, and the mucus is still in there? Her chest isn't heaving up and down as much, she is exploring much more. She even bit me, and pushed my hands away, too.

Got her to drink some water to keep her hydrated - and at this moment she is exploring her box. :p

I am still keeping a close eye on her and am debating whether to keep her in for the night, or take her back out to mommy right now, or just wait until morning.

She is eating pellets right now, and getting a drink of water. Before, she was just sitting in one place, not really doing much. She has only sneezed once since I pulled it out, and there was just some snot that came out - which I wiped clear.

Emily:pray:
 

aurora369

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I have seen that happen with a younger rabbit, eyes not open yet. Get a piece of hay lodged up in it's nostril and had to have it pulled out.

I would put her back with mom and siblings. The less stress the better. Plus mom might help clean her face and nose off.

If the nose has not stopped snotting tomorrow, I would suspect that the hay lodged in her nose caused an upper respiratory infection. She will most likely need antibiotics to clear if up if that is the case. My vet really likes to use Chloropalm with young rabbits as he says it is easier on their digestive systems then other oral antibiotics. You have to wear gloves when handling it as it can (in rare cases) cause a problem with bone marrow in humans.

-Dawn
 

tonyshuman

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Yep, just leave her with the rest of the litter. You can use those baby snot bulbs too to remove snot from the nose if it's getting hard to breathe. Let us know if taking the hay out did the trick!
 

BlueCamasRabbitry

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Hey guys!

She no longer has any mucus coming out of her nose. Her breathing is still a little bit weezy sounding, but her nose is all clear. I'm going to put her back out with momma tonight. I did bring her out this morning to get fed, but Chancey didn't feed her; I only kept her inside today just to be on the safe side. ;)

Emily
 

jamesedwardwaller

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BlueSkyAcresRabbitry wrote:
Hey guys!

She no longer has any mucus coming out of her nose. Her breathing is still a little bit weezy sounding, but her nose is all clear. I'm going to put her back out with momma tonight. I did bring her out this morning to get fed, but Chancey didn't feed her; I only kept her inside today just to be on the safe side. ;)

Emil
excellent find.//.i bet the little one appreciated having that removed.//however the linguring question is..bacteria/stress,,keep an eye on her progress-there may be a underlying problem..ie upper resiratory...sincerely james waller:pray::biggrin:
 

BlueCamasRabbitry

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Okay, so I put the baby out with momma/siblings last night, and this morning she was sneezing and had a little bit of discharge from her nose. Not a ton though.

Do you think it's upper respiratory infection? If so...what do I do?

My 4-H leader suggested giving her 100 mg of Vit C, but I think that's too much...if I do give her some should I just give her 50 mg? She's 5 weeks old - a Mini Rex, so quite small.

My 4-H leader also has a mixture of stuff that she says completely wipes out the snuffles, so I asked her for the ingredients in the mixture.

Emily
 

BlueCamasRabbitry

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Okay so we brought the baby back up to the house...not sure if she's allergic to something out in the rabbitry? If it's an infection?

We gave her some Vit C, so hopefully that will help. Still waiting on the reply from my 4-H leader.

Could she have an upper respiratory infection?

Emily
 

tonyshuman

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Sorry I didn't respond about Vit C fast enough. I'm not sure it would help much. I don't have time to look into it right now.

She could have a URI, perhaps caused by the thing in her nose. It could be allergies too. If the mucus is clear it's less likely to be a URI. Some people don't believe rabbits get allergies, and I'm inclined to agree for the most part. It's certainly not as common in rabbits as it is in humans.

Make sure she's still getting the milk she needs thought you brought her inside.
 

BlueCamasRabbitry

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Claire, the mucus is white-ish. There isn't like cnstant mucus, but just a little - mainly after she sneezes (which also isn't constant).

Should I just put her back outside so she gets the milk she needs? I took her out yesterday morning (she got milk this morning because she slept outsie last night) but Chancey wouldn't feed her, since she'd already fed. URI's aren't contagious, are they?

Emily
 

tonyshuman

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Well, I wouldn't worry about her siblings getting it from her. Usually the bacteria that are causing a URI are always in the system but something makes them less able to fight them off so they get sick. In this one's case it was probably the hay up her nose. It's up to you if you want to keep her inside and have scheduled feedings with the mom--that would probably be fine, because don't they only need milk twice a day or so?

White mucus sounds like a URI. It might be worth looking into chlorpalm. Something like teramycin probably won't be strong enough.
 

BlueCamasRabbitry

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Hmm. I've got other breeders telling me it's snuffles and to keep her isolated (although I've already exposed her to everyone else already) but I am going to agree with you on the URI thing (mainly because I think snuffles would be showing way more severe symptoms) Plus if you say that the white mucus sounds like an URI, then that's probably what it is.

I am going to put her back out with mom tonight though - even though it seems like her symptoms get worse in the rabbitry (we cleaned the cages today, and are letting it air out - maybe the ammonia build up was too much? Or something in there bothered her?) but I don't want to keep her away from momma and siblings.

Where would I get chlorpalm? Is that the only thing to treat it with? Is it costly?

Emily
 

tonyshuman

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Ok, there's an issue here with terminology. "Snuffles" is an old-fashioned term that describes a set of symptoms: runny nose, congestion, runny eyes. It's like saying "I have a cold." These symptoms can be caused by an upper respiratory infection, or a viral infection. A viral infection will be easily spread, and will often lead to a bacterial infection on top of that. That's because a rabbit's immune system is pretty delicate and any time it is compromised, ie by a virus, a bacterial infection develops because of the delicate balance between a rabbit's immune system and the bacteria that are always present.

If someone says a disease with the symptoms of "snuffles" is contagious, it is usually caused by something that is affecting all the rabbits in the barn. For instance, a virus might be spread via the air, a change in temperature might make them uncomfortable, dusty hay might cause problems, and they might all molt at the same time. It's not the bacteria that are going from rabbit to rabbit, but a virus is being transmitted or they're just developing symptoms of the URI in succession as their immune systems react to the stresses on them.

Many people who know a lot about rabbit health hate to hear the term "snuffles" because it is overused and doesn't really tell you what can be done for the rabbit. If there's a viral infection, there's not a lot you can do, other than support the rabbit's immune system in case they get a bacterial infection on top of that. If it's a bacterial infection, it can be treated.

This website lists all the possible causes of "snuffles"-like symptoms:
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Respiratory/Differential/respira_diff.htm

So as you can see, calling it "snuffles" doesn't really tell you a lot.

Here is some more info about URIs:
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Respiratory/Bacterial/URI.htm

Even more:
http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/sneezing.html
 

BlueCamasRabbitry

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Ahh thank your for that clarification, Claire. :) I had read something like that in the rabbit books, but it's all kind of confusing.

So basically, snuffles just describes the symptoms they might experience, while the actual illness is a virus or or bacterial infection?

I'm assuming that this means it's OK to put her back out with mom and siblings since no one else in the rabbitry is showing signs that's its a virus?

Thanks for the links, as well. I will read up on them.

Emily
 

tonyshuman

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Chlorpalm will have to come from a vet. I mentioned it because Dawn said she had used it in young buns without upsetting their fragile GI tract.
 

tonyshuman

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Gentamicin is probably found at a vet as well, as is enrofloxacin (Baytril). I hope Dawn will tell us more about why her vet prefers to use chlorpalm in young bunnies. I know Baytril can have some bad GI effects and a topical nose or eye drop will not be as strong as a systemic (ie oral or injected) treatment).
 

BlueCamasRabbitry

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Okay. I'm guessing I'd have to make an appointment to get the chlorpalm - I have the money, it's just my mom doesn't believe in taking rabbits to the vet (which upsets me - it's my money).

How much do you think it would cost for the medicine? I'm guessing a check-up/diagnosis would be about $30.

ETA: I have penicillin. Would that be an option to give?

Emily
 

tonyshuman

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Penicillin is an option, and I have heard of it being given to bunnies that are pretty young (for syphilis). It was Naturestee whose foster babies had syphilis--you might PM her to see what she thinks about it. Also, Peg (Tinysmom) may have given Pen G to babies before as well.
 

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