PLEASE HELP urgent question - big and mucus poops???

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zuppa

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Am I getting it right, they are 4 weeks old, not 4 months old?


Can you post some photo of them? Are they fat or underweight, active?

I agree with all said about hay but if they are 4 week old at that age babies still getting mother's milk until 8 week so they need some extra protein, calcium and phosphorus, so if you are feeding them junior pellets they must be high on that, you can supplement that but it would be good if you can tell us if they are fat or not.

Coarse hay, my rabbits actually prefer coarse hay over soft, they leave soft hay picking stronger stems. Soft hay is for rabbits with dental problems, seniors etc. I've never tried Kaytee brand but heard mixed reviews.
 

Lucas the Bun πŸ’•πŸ‡

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Okay, thank you! They've been eating the Timothy hay right up. Is there any way to tell if the hay is too coarse? I'm on my first bag of hay ever so I dont have much of a baseline, haha. It's Kaytee brand, which was the only option our Rural King had. Had I known about the brands reputation beforehand, I would've bought something else.
I like Small Pet Select they sell quality hay it comes in a cardboard box (which if I'm not mistaken lets the hay "breathe") but it takes a while to come to my house like 2 week's. :)
PS: Bunny s like to chew cardboard πŸ˜‰
15957093127511462249275.jpg
 

bree1699

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Am I getting it right, they are 4 weeks old, not 4 months old?


Can you post some photo of them? Are they fat or underweight, active?

I agree with all said about hay but if they are 4 week old at that age babies still getting mother's milk until 8 week so they need some extra protein, calcium and phosphorus, so if you are feeding them junior pellets they must be high on that, you can supplement that but it would be good if you can tell us if they are fat or not.

Coarse hay, my rabbits actually prefer coarse hay over soft, they leave soft hay picking stronger stems. Soft hay is for rabbits with dental problems, seniors etc. I've never tried Kaytee brand but heard mixed reviews.
Am I getting it right, they are 4 weeks old, not 4 months old?


Can you post some photo of them? Are they fat or underweight, active?

I agree with all said about hay but if they are 4 week old at that age babies still getting mother's milk until 8 week so they need some extra protein, calcium and phosphorus, so if you are feeding them junior pellets they must be high on that, you can supplement that but it would be good if you can tell us if they are fat or not.

Coarse hay, my rabbits actually prefer coarse hay over soft, they leave soft hay picking stronger stems. Soft hay is for rabbits with dental problems, seniors etc. I've never tried Kaytee brand but heard mixed reviews.
These are the best I could get as of right now, they're currently not in a sitting still kinda mood!

But yes, unfortunately they are only 4 weeks old because their mother had another litter and abandoned them. We got them from my mom's coworker, not a breeder or anything, and I wasn't aware that they were so young until we got them. Before we got them, they were fed carrots and apples and other greens and were doing fine with those, I guess, but i don't feel comfortable giving them those with them being so young.

Theyre both about the right weight from what I can gather. One (Fitzroy) is a little skinnier than the other (Conrad) but theyre both definitely better than when they showed up on Monday; they were just skin and bones. They both seem to be doing okay, theyre eating well and they run around binkying from time to time. I even saw Fitzroy flop this morning, which was a first!

I'm going to try to weigh them tonight after they've calmed down some so I can keep track of how much theyre gaining. Does anyone have a resource as to approx how much they should be gaining per day/week?
 

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zuppa

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Beautiful!

Since you say you are new to rabbits and getting 4 week old rabbits is a big challenge even for an experienced rabbit person, I will tell you how normally things should go with the babies.

I understand that these babies were abandoned because their mother had another litter, this wasn't your fault just now you have babies and they should still have their mother's milk for another 4 weeks. Which is impossible right now so we have to go with what we have at hand.

Also if they were fed carrots and apples that was surely wrong, you are generally doing good that you got junior pellets for them, and they are already based on alfalfa so you can feed a bit more alfalfa since they are underweight but not necessary, I would suggest feeding unlimited timothy or other grass hay (alfalfa is not grass). Also you can offer them 1 tbs of kitchen rolled oats once or twice a day, they are good for underweight and weak rabbits, but when they will gain some weight you can reduce that.

Generally their diet should be unlimited timothy (or other grass) hay and unlimited junior pellets min 16% protein in them, plus 1-2 tablespoon of rolled oats. Plus unlimited fresh water, I would recommend boiled since their stomachs still aren't strong, just to stay on safe side.


What would be their normal life and diet if they were staying with their mother.

1. They get mothers milk for first 8-10 weeks.
2. They get mother's poo's, they need to eat them to get right bacteria helping them to digest adult food
3. They starting eating hay from very close to their birth, at about 2-3 weeks they eat little more hay and by week 4 they should eat hay and they should love it. They start drinking water then, since milk doesn't provide enough liquide anymore.
4. Around week 3-4 they start trying their mother's pellets as well, by week 6 they eat up to 50 gram of pellets, later they eat more and more pellets and it is important that they have unlimited pellets, they can eat up to 200 gram a day, that is 4 adult daily portions. They need much protein, calcium for their bones too, so you can offer them 50 gram of pellets 4 times a day (don't give too much at a time, better less but a few times a day).
5. Water should be unlimited and I would suggest boiled.

So after 6 weeks babies are usually eating full portion of solid food and still getting mother's milk, around week 7-8 she stops nursing, but some mothers are so nice they keep feeding later, my Arnie fed up to 4,5 months, I felt bad for her, she is an amazing mother she fed 4 times a day when normally rabbits only nurse once or twice a day. Her kits are exceptionally strong, healthy and well behaved, they are very good to each other as well. But that would be an exception, normally 7-8 weeks would be enough.

So as I said in your case I would offer unlimited timothy or grass hay (add limited alfalfa if you want since they are underweight), unlimited water, unlimited (up to 200 gram a day, 4 times x 50 gram for both, if they look hungry you can increase that), plus 1 tbs of rolled oats twice a day.

No vegs or greens until they are 4 months old, but you can offer some dried herbs, mint, chamomile etc.

That would be their diet for the next couple months, when they are 4-4,5 months you should start limiting their pellets and switch them gradually to adult pellets, then you can start adding greens/vegetables, but just one type at a time, we can discuss later.
 

zuppa

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And as I mentioned they normally eat their mothers poo which helps to develop right bacteria, so maybe other members can advise maybe you can use some prebiotics but I have no experience with that I always had mother with a plenty of poo.
 

zuppa

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When they are 8-10 weeks old you will need to find out their genders, you might need to separate them at 3 months if they are different genders, and then you will see if you want to neuter them or well that will be another story
 

bree1699

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Beautiful!

Since you say you are new to rabbits and getting 4 week old rabbits is a big challenge even for an experienced rabbit person, I will tell you how normally things should go with the babies.

I understand that these babies were abandoned because their mother had another litter, this wasn't your fault just now you have babies and they should still have their mother's milk for another 4 weeks. Which is impossible right now so we have to go with what we have at hand.

Also if they were fed carrots and apples that was surely wrong, you are generally doing good that you got junior pellets for them, and they are already based on alfalfa so you can feed a bit more alfalfa since they are underweight but not necessary, I would suggest feeding unlimited timothy or other grass hay (alfalfa is not grass). Also you can offer them 1 tbs of kitchen rolled oats once or twice a day, they are good for underweight and weak rabbits, but when they will gain some weight you can reduce that.

Generally their diet should be unlimited timothy (or other grass) hay and unlimited junior pellets min 16% protein in them, plus 1-2 tablespoon of rolled oats. Plus unlimited fresh water, I would recommend boiled since their stomachs still aren't strong, just to stay on safe side.


What would be their normal life and diet if they were staying with their mother.

1. They get mothers milk for first 8-10 weeks.
2. They get mother's poo's, they need to eat them to get right bacteria helping them to digest adult food
3. They starting eating hay from very close to their birth, at about 2-3 weeks they eat little more hay and by week 4 they should eat hay and they should love it. They start drinking water then, since milk doesn't provide enough liquide anymore.
4. Around week 3-4 they start trying their mother's pellets as well, by week 6 they eat up to 50 gram of pellets, later they eat more and more pellets and it is important that they have unlimited pellets, they can eat up to 200 gram a day, that is 4 adult daily portions. They need much protein, calcium for their bones too, so you can offer them 50 gram of pellets 4 times a day (don't give too much at a time, better less but a few times a day).
5. Water should be unlimited and I would suggest boiled.

So after 6 weeks babies are usually eating full portion of solid food and still getting mother's milk, around week 7-8 she stops nursing, but some mothers are so nice they keep feeding later, my Arnie fed up to 4,5 months, I felt bad for her, she is an amazing mother she fed 4 times a day when normally rabbits only nurse once or twice a day. Her kits are exceptionally strong, healthy and well behaved, they are very good to each other as well. But that would be an exception, normally 7-8 weeks would be enough.

So as I said in your case I would offer unlimited timothy or grass hay (add limited alfalfa if you want since they are underweight), unlimited water, unlimited (up to 200 gram a day, 4 times x 50 gram for both, if they look hungry you can increase that), plus 1 tbs of rolled oats twice a day.

No vegs or greens until they are 4 months old, but you can offer some dried herbs, mint, chamomile etc.

That would be their diet for the next couple months, when they are 4-4,5 months you should start limiting their pellets and switch them gradually to adult pellets, then you can start adding greens/vegetables, but just one type at a time, we can discuss later.
Should they have oats yet since they are so young? I weighed them last night, one is 351g and the other is 278g
 

JBun

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I would strongly discourage you from adding oats(or any high carb food) to their diet. Oats are a grain, therefore high carb. Baby rabbits have a harder time efficiently processing carbs so it can end up in the cecum before it's been properly digested. The high sugar/carb content is what can lead to bad bacterial overgrowth and serious digestive issues like mucoid enteritis Your bunnies are just recovering from mucoid enteritis. The last thing you want to be doing so soon after that is adding in a bunch of carbohydrates that could just end up setting it off again.

I would stick with what I suggested previously. Yes being on a lower protein grass hay diet may decrease their growth rate slightly, but the risk of mucoid enteritis making them very sick or even being fatal, is a far greater concern to me at this point. You'll be adding in the alfalfa hay soon enough, and that will help improve their weight gain. As long as they are doing well now and their poop is looking good, I would be happy with that and stick with the planned diet. I wouldn't be in any rush to change what seems to be working, especially when they are so prone to becoming sick again at this stage. For weight gain, I wouldn't worry about exact amounts right now, just as long as they are steadily gaining and don't feel boney.

You can tell coarse hay as it seems almost all stick like. If you're still not sure you could post a picture here for an opinion. Yes, coarse hay is fine if there are other high nutrient foods in the diet like sufficient amounts of pellets to balance it. It's when the diet isn't properly balanced and there is too much coarse hay and not enough nutrient dense food that it can cause problems like weight loss and risk an impacted cecum. Because your rabbits are only eating grass hay right now, that's why you don't want it to be a coarse hay. A mix of crunchy stems and soft leafy parts is what you are aiming for so they get a balance of nutrient dense leafy bits and high fiber crunchy stems.

Since you have a farm store to go to, see if they don't sell good quality grass hay(horse hay) by the bale. If you have the space to store it, it's a much cheaper option than those expensive 'pet' bags of hay. The only thing is that the quality can vary a little, so you just want to make sure it's horse quality hay; so never been wet, no mold(sour musty smell, white or black parts in the hay, white dust), no noxious weeds(these are all potentially deadly to rabbits and horses, the mold and weeds), that it's a decent green color on the inside of the bale, that it's not full of dust, and that it's not too coarse. But that can be hard for a first time rabbit owner to determine, so it may be easier to just spend the extra money and go with a reliable pet brand. Oxbow isn't bad, small pet select is good to. Others may be able to give their recommendations as well.
 
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bree1699

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I would strongly discourage you from adding oats(or any high carb food) to their diet. Oats are a grain, therefore high carb. Baby rabbits have a harder time efficiently processing carbs so it can end up in the cecum before it's been properly digested. The high sugar/carb content is what can lead to bad bacterial overgrowth and serious digestive issues like mucoid enteritis Your bunnies are just recovering from mucoid enteritis. The last thing you want to be doing so soon after that is adding in a bunch of carbohydrates that could just end up setting it off again.

I would stick with what I suggested previously. Yes being on a lower protein grass hay diet may decrease their growth rate slightly, but the risk of mucoid enteritis making them very sick or even being fatal, is a far greater concern to me at this point. You'll be adding in the alfalfa hay soon enough, and that will help improve their weight gain. As long as they are doing well now and their poop is looking good, I would be happy with that and stick with the planned diet. I wouldn't be in any rush to change what seems to be working, especially when they are so prone to becoming sick again at this stage. For weight gain, I wouldn't worry about exact amounts right now, just as long as they are steadily gaining and don't feel boney.

You can tell coarse hay as it seems almost all stick like. If you're still not sure you could post a picture here for an opinion. Yes, coarse hay is fine if there are other high nutrient foods in the diet like sufficient amounts of pellets to balance it. It's when the diet isn't properly balanced and there is too much coarse hay and not enough nutrient dense food that it can cause problems like weight loss and risk an impacted cecum. Because your rabbits are only eating grass hay right now, that's why you don't want it to be a coarse hay. A mix of crunchy stems and soft leafy parts is what you are aiming for so they get a balance of nutrient dense leafy bits and high fiber crunchy stems.

Since you have a farm store to go to, see if they don't sell good quality grass hay(horse hay) by the bale. If you have the space to store it, it's a much cheaper option than those expensive 'pet' bags of hay. The only thing is that the quality can vary a little, so you just want to make sure it's horse quality hay; so never been wet, no mold(sour musty smell, white or black parts in the hay, white dust), no noxious weeds(these are all potentially deadly to rabbits and horses, the mold and weeds), that it's a decent green color on the inside of the bale, that it's not full of dust, and that it's not too coarse. But that can be hard for a first time rabbit owner to determine, so it may be easier to just spend the extra money and go with a reliable pet brand. Oxbow isn't bad, small pet select is good to. Others may be able to give their recommendations as well.
Thank you for your continued help! I have been giving them mostly Timothy hay and have been slowly reintroducing alfalfa, which they love and seem to be handling well. I think that the Timothy hay is a good texture for them and they tend to pick through the bigger, coarser pieces to get to the softer stuff, anyways. I will probably start to reintroduce pellets in the next couple of days.

One more question (I can make a new thread if I need to lol) but one of them is a good bit bigger than the other, should I be concerned? I'm guessing not as they're both eating, drinking, and pooping fine, but I'm paranoid lol. I've heard that kits with a higher birth weight tend to grow faster so that might be the case here but I wanted to ask if you had any input?

Thanks!
 

JBun

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Is the one that had the mucousy poop the smaller one?
 

Lucas the Bun πŸ’•πŸ‡

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I'm not sure because I never saw which one had pooped, I just found the poop afterwards. I am trying to get them into the vet but as of right now the earliest they can get me in is the 14th :(
If you really wanted to find out who’s poo it was you could separate them for a little bit and find out (but it might have changed)
 
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