Old rabbit dental...advice really needed

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jcottonl02

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Benji is 8 years old and he had his incisors extracted when he was about 6, under anasthetic. He had been going to the vets every 3 weeks to get them filed down for a couple of years, and they said it was to do with his genetics.
I decided then to get them removed, because it was so unfair on him to be going so often and having his mouth held open for them to file them down, although he was always excellent when he was there and accepted it.

They removed them and I was obviously aware of the risks. They removed all four incisors, leaving the peg teeth, and filed down his overgrown molars while he was under. He recovered well, no infection etc. and has never been happier or greedier!

I knew he would need his molars done again one day but was just hoping they would be okay.


A week ago he had a really watery nose. Runny, clear, watery discharge constantly. So I took him to the vets (a different one as I have moved house) and they asked 'was he eating' 'was he lethargic' etc. He was acting no different to before- greedy as ever, as energetic as ever, seemed completely normal. They didn't check his molars, and I thought at the time that was weird, and put him on antibiotics for a week.
I took him back today because his nose hadn't seemed to clear up fully. And it was a differnet vet this time. She checked his molars- one side was fine and he let her do it, the other side he was pushing her out all the time and it was so difficult for her to look on that side (i guess now because it was uncomfortable). She said the molars on his left side were bad, his gums inflamed, and he would need a dental.

She said he would need molars extracted (which I've read you shouldn't do?) but she didn't think he would wake up from the anasthetic. So what should I do?, I asked her. She said, either do the dental and be aware he probably won't wake up, or leave him and when he stops eating then take him for the dental.

My questions are:

1) What are the chances of him waking up? Very slim? Half and half? Cannot say?
2) Do the molars need to be extracted? Can they not be filed down under a sedation? Leading me to question 3) is sedation as risky as anasthetic?
3) If I leave him until he's unable to eat, won't he be in a huge amount of pain, and won't that lead to more possible chances of infection, abcesses, trauma to the mouth that may make recovery after the dental more risky?
4) What would you guys do?
5) Anyone know of any rabbit dental experts anywhere in the UK? I will travel anywhere.
6) Are there any other options for molar tooth removal other than anasthetic? Could it be done under sedation? I think this is a no, but I will ask anyway.

I love him with all my heart. He's a house bunny and more like a dog than a rabbit. I have been with him 8 years and I can't imagine my life without him.

I'm asking because I don't fully trust what this vet has said. I know I should do, but if the vet is wrong, and I put him under anasthetic and he doesn't wakeup, and find out later I could have gone down an alternative route, I'll never be able to live with myself.

Thank you in advance.

:(

Jen
 
I'm not sure that molar extraction is necessary, especially with your bun being a bit older. Molar extraction is usually considered when the tooth is already loose and possibly infected/decaying. If it isn't loose, it can be a bit risky and difficult to remove. I think I would be looking for a second opinion. You have some really wonderful rabbit specialists in the UK. Are you still located in London, and if so which part approximately? I know of several good vets around there.
 
Okay, my rabbit is that old but I need some info on what to do. I have a holland lop he is 2 years old. I have noticed that his two bottom incisors are two different sizes. So I took him to the vet. The vet has said that he might have a infection in the jaw where she felt two small bumps, and that he hasn't been grinding his teeth properly. I am wondering if this could be genetic? I do know that one of is litter brother's was born with a split penis. We do have two other rabbits and they have not shown any signs of teeth problems and we feed them the same as our holland lop. Pumpkin will be have a surgery on monday to grind his teeth down. So if there is any thing that you know that might help us greatly.
 
ShelbyDee, you need to start a new thread and post your question so its a seperate thread. Otherwise people get confused trying to answer two different people on the same thread. Good question though, so repost please :)
 
Thanks Jbun I really appreciate the reply.
That's what I thought! Thank you. And I'm right in thinking grinding the molars down wouldn't be as risky because it would be under sedation?

I live in Sutton so anywhere within a half hour drive is ideal but like i said I'll go just about anywhere for the best.

Jen
 
Jcotton, I don't like that vet for suggesting that you just leave him till he can't eat, because of exactly what you said....

3) If I leave him until he's unable to eat, won't he be in a huge amount of pain, and won't that lead to more possible chances of infection, abcesses, trauma to the mouth that may make recovery after the dental more risky?

I think you need to find a really rabbit savvy dental vet to help you.

Also, I have read a lot of posts on this forum where people did put their older rabbits under anaesthesia for various reasons, and they lived. So, I think if he were put under just long enough to get the molars ground down, that would make more sense to me.
 
Any anesthesia or sedation carries risks, and the older the rabbit the greater the risk. But with a very experienced rabbit vet, these risks are greatly reduced, and a less invasive procedure will also reduce the risk(eg. burring the teeth as opposed to complicated tooth removal). A good rabbit vet will be able to explain the risks and what would be the best option taking into consideration your rabbits age and health.

Ok, there are two really good rabbit vets south of London. One is in Twickenham, which would probably be the closest for you, the other is in Maidstone.

Twickenham Veterinary Surgery and the vet is Christabel Moseley.
http://www.twickenhamvets.com/homepage.aspx

Tinity Vet Centre, vet Mark Rowland
http://trinityvetcentre.com/Trinity_Vet_Centre/Home.html

I've read of Mark being recommended for rabbit dentals, not sure about Christabel but I know she's a good rabbit vet. Something you'll want to discuss when phoning them.
 
Thanks squidpop, I'm glad I'm not over analysing the situation and others agree! That's good. The way she made it out to me was that the chance was very slim and didn't even mention the option of grinding them.

Jbun you are an angel. Thank you a million and I will get in touch with these two and discuss options. I appreciate that so much and I will keep you guys updated on what happens.
Jen
 
I feel your pain. My vet informed me that my rabbit's molar needs to be filed down under GA. This makes me extremely nervous because my bun is 8-yrs-old too. He doesn't act like anything is bugging him when he eats, but he has had a couple of GI Stasis episodes within the last year which leads me to think he may have some difficulty chewing. He certainly can eat fast though so it must not be bothering him too much! I wish you and your bun the best. It sounds like you need a second opinion which is what I am seeking too.
 
I spent July externing in an exotics-only practice that does a lot of rabbit dentals and saw quite a few older rabbits go through procedures with no problems. I'd recommend bloodwork before anesthesia but if he's in otherwise good condition he should be fine. If it's just the tops of the molars that are an issue they might be able to try just sedation and snipping them instead. I wouldn't have him put under anesthesia to have them pulled without first having skull radiographs done to look for other issues.
 
Thank you guys.
Iv got a new dilemma now :-(.
Mark at trinity is away until next Thursday. Can I afford to wait weeks with this? How quick do dental problems progress?
Benji is eating all his food with gusto, I think he's chewing properly, and as we speak I'm waiting him wash himself and clean his back feet. He also eats his caecals directly.

However I think iv noticed this morning that one side of his mouth is a little slobbery. He normally gets a wet mouth after eating because of all his vegetables, but he ate dinner last night so it can't be that.

Can I afford to wait over a week for a consultation and then maybe up to another week for the dental?

Thank you

Jen
 
Rabbits can be just fine and go on eating for a while with a dental issue, or they can stop eating that same day. Hard to know. You could go ahead and make the appointment, then just keep a really close eye on your buns eating and make sure he continues to eat the same amounts.. Then if you do notice any reduction in eating or trouble chewing and dropping food, just give the vet a call to see what they suggest. Mark seems to be the best, but I believe they have other rabbit vets that are also good. If something does come up with your bun, sometimes you can get away with supplementing with recovery food as a temporary measure if the appt. isn't too far away. Or maybe your buns dental issues aren't as severe as the other vet lead you to believe. I've read of less experienced vets completely misdiagnosing the situation. Or it could be your bun's teeth just aren't bad enough yet that they are bothering him.

Keep us updated on how it goes.
 
Well iv just come out of my appointment and the vet was brilliant. He said that they weren't as bad as the other vet made out and no extraction was necessary!!
They have taken him in for x rays and to file down the molars and he said benji should be absolutely fine.

I'm so thrilled I am actually crying!! Thank you so much for all your help. Iv got to ring at 1.30 when he should have come round from the sedation and iv left him his favourite veggies and food for when he wakes up.

:-D :-D :-D :-D

Jen
 
He's out now and on the way home.

The vet actually ended up removing a tooth! Apparently it was fractured and I asked how this could be and he said the tooth itself was very unhealthy after having done the X-rays so anything could have done it.
But Ben is doing well and he's got his antibiotics and painkillers and I'm just so glad he's alright!!

Strange thing though- I asked if because they only removed one molar wouldn't the other one grow upwards into the gum eventually cos it has nothing to grind on and he said that around 8 or 9 years old the teeth stop growing continuously like they used to so it shouldn't be a problem.

Iv never heard that before but I trust him! Anyone else heard that?

Jen
 
Hooray!!!

I'm sorry a tooth had to be removed, but it's good that it was found before it could cause worse issues. Just from coming across his name from many other rabbit owners, Mark seems to be one of the best rabbit vets out there, so if he says the tooth needed removal, I would certainly trust it.

I think I have come across info that suggests tooth growth does slow down as a rabbit gets older. Also to consider is that the grinding action of chewing hay, causes many teeth to rub against each other, and not just the two teeth opposing. So even with a tooth removed, the tooth opposite would still make contact with the teeth around the missing tooth. Wouldn't hurt to have a check up in a few months though, just to make sure it is still doing well.

So happy it's all taken care of and your boy is on his way home and is doing well :)
 
Thanks Jbun! I'm so thrilled :-D! I can't believe he's awake and it's all done. That other vet I saw before scared the living bejesus out of me that benji wouldn't survive the anaesthetic.
It wasn't actually Mark- he is on holiday but I was told the other vets there are all highly specialised in rabbit dental work and I was worried about waiting. And I'm glad I didn't! I'd have to wait weeks and id hate to thing of Ben having a fractured tooth- the vet said it must have been uncomfortable for him but bless I would have never known cos he just gets on with it!
I'm just so shocked he had a fractured tooth but it makes sense as to why it was also overgrowing because it was at an angle.
He also let me look at the tooth inside bens mouth! Ben was sitting there as good as gold with the scope thing in his mouth (more than can be said about when the previous vet tried to look lol which is a good sign!) and he said come round and look- it was fascinating!

Oh that's good, thank you!! I haven't ever come across anything that even hints at that on the Internet but then again rabbit dentistry seems like an extremely complicated thing. I'm glad because I wouldn't want to go and get another tooth removed!

That's a good idea. I think I will do that just so I know everything has healed well, because clearly benji doesn't ever show he's in discomfort! Not with his ear infections, a fractured tooth, even when he had his incisors out he was eating the next day lol.

Jen

Jen
 

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