Nutri Cal & Benebac Questions

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kirst3buns

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I just read Pam's note in the infirmary about GI stasis season and Nutri Cal. I've never given Nutri Cal and wondered more about it. I was able to find a little information in the library but still have questions.

From my reading, I assume you would only use Nutri Cal if you start to see any early symptons of stasis but not if the rabbit isn't eating at all. Is this correct? Does it just stimulate appetite for rabbits? I've only seen it for dogs and cats and wondered if this is the same stuff you give a rabbit and how much to give?

I've always just added a teaspoon of pumpkin to my rabbits morning and evening greens if I suspect he may be acting a little off or has smaller poos. Would it be better to skip the pumpkin and add the Nutri Cal?

Also, when is Benebacgiven? I've never seen this in our local pet store.Is it something the vet should give?I spentmuch of last year dealing with a rabbit withgut issues and the vet never mentioned either of them.I'm wondering if its something I need to keep on hand though but not sure.

I always have simethicone, canned pumpkin and critical care on hand.DoI try to find benebac and nutri cal too?

Thanks.
 

pamnock

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Nutri Cal (for dogs/cats) is an especially good way to get calories into a rabbit that isn't eating. It's very high in fat, so needs to be used sparingly. I'd skip the pumpkin and go straight for the Nutri Cal, which contains vitamin E.

I do advise limited use of Simethicone. If a rabbit is going into alkalosis (high gut pH), administering a base can do more harm than good. (Such as cases of dysbiosis). Overuse of bicarbonates can actually result metabolic alkalosis. Simethicone can work wonders in cases of acidosis (as can a tiny amount of baking soda).



Pam
 
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kirst, I read pam's post and was wondering the exact same things. I also looked up benebac, Nutrical and Critical Care but wasn't sure when to give what.

I guess what people have been saying is Benebac dog or cat gel works fine for rabbits when their digestion is slow? I'm wondering what I can do to help my Kirby whose eating habits have been off for at least a week. He doesn't seem interested in food but he's still eating slowly, and still pooping regularly. Vet says there were no signs of gut blockages, but he's pooping strings of poo with hair. Maybe Benebac can help him along?

I thought Critical Care was only obtained by prescription? Can you actually buy it somewhere? What is it? When should it be used?
 

Pipp

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pamnock wrote:
I do advise limited use of Simethicone. If a rabbit is going into alkalosis (high gut pH), administering a base can do more harm than good. (Such as cases of dysbiosis). Overuse of bicarbonates can actually result metabolic alkalosis. Simethicone can work wonders in cases of acidosis (as can a tiny amount of baking soda).
Uh... can I get a translation, preferably in very slow, clear English? :biggrin2:

I'll offer my take on these things...

The differentiation I make depends on output. A bunny with a sluggish gut, hairballs, blockages or whatever will most often have small, dry, hairy and/or misshapen poops. A bunny with a gut imbalance is more prone to putting out an overloard of cecals often resulting in 'poopy butt' or even what appears to be diarrhea. My gassy bunnies have most often had fairly normal poops, although they may not poop much (seeing as their appetites are gone) and they may not feel like eating their cecals. In all cases, they may not be pooping at all.

Pumpkin - great for wet fiber, best as a preventative medicine for molting bunnies. Also good for bunnies who are eating less than usual and will eat pumpkin willingly, or as part of a later regime for bunnies not eating at all. When Pipp is molting or has small, dry poops, pumpkin is the first thing she gets. I will also give it to her for a digestive upset signaled by 'poopy butt', although it is somewhat high in carbohydrates, but only because she refuses hay, which is the best fibre source.

Nutri-Cal - as Pam said, a great energy boost and appetite stimulant. Good for almost all scenarios in very small amounts, but I am more cautious when there is a dysbiosis type of upset (poopy butt) because of the sugars, but the amount given is minuscule enough (about the same as honey-flavored Metacam or other similar things), so its not a huge worry.

Benebac - A pro-biotic best for balance upsets, and a must for bunnies on antibiotics.

Critical Care - this is not a prescription, but it is sold at the vet's office and it does really work as food for rabbits needing nutrition and gut stimulation after 24 hours wilth out food or poops, or rabbits recovering from stasis. It looks like ground pellets but contains probiotics and vitamins. It should NOT be given as a 'first line of attack'. It should not be given to hypothermic (low body temp) rabbits. It is NOT important to force feed sick rabbits as soon as most people think. Initial therapy should include warm oral fluids or sub cutaneous (under the skin) hydration and other treatments (including a little Nutri-Cal) before worrying about that level of nutrition/GI stimulation.

Simethicone - not sure what Pam means by the above paragraph, but Simethicone will break up large gas bubbles into smaller bubbles making them far more comfortable for the rabbit and easier to pass through the system. Gas can be caused by a food sensitivity, or it can be a byproduct of other ailments including sluggish guts, 'hairballs' and I believe gut imbalances. The pain from gas can lead to stasis - the gut shutting down -- and vice-versa. It is an 'inert' drug, which means it's not absorbed by the tissues, which makes it pretty safe. It can interact with other drugs, however, so there a few cases where caution is best.

Love to hear feedback on this.


sas :bunnydance:
 
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Benebac may help to establish a normal gut flora (microorganisms) in a rabbit that is on oral antibiotics , has a GI upset or is under stress


http://www.jbpet.com/Bene-Bac-Powder,659.html


Critical Care is an actual complete herbivore food in powdered form that also contains fiber and probiotics . It can be ordered through Oxbow

http://oxbowanimalhealth.com/products/type/detail?object=1608

Nutrical is a dietary supplement that is used to stimulate appetite, nourish and strenthen an ill or inappetent animal. It is often used when a rabbit is in GI stasis

it can be bought in pet stores
http://www.bullwrinkle.com/ShoppingPages/nutrical_nutri-cal.htm
 

Pipp

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Nope, I think our info complimented each other nicely. :) (And I asked for reinforcement and additional info, I'd like to hear from everybody on this). The links are great.

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I use benbac a lot because I feel that it won't hurt the bunny
last night I posted that I had a bun with fur stringy poops who left his veggies and wasn't pooping alot.
I gave him pedialyte, pineapple juice , simethicone, and benebac within the course of an entire night
today he is fine

I see critical care as a food. My dental bunny eats it out of a bowl with BBT mixed with hot water and made into a slurry
It is supposed to be used for syringe feeding, however , I use pumpkin a lot for stasis as it is way easier to get in the rabbit . Some of my rabbits will eat pumpkin out of a bowl

I find that pumpkin makes rabbits poop
I have used nutrical but reach for it last because my buns despise the taste and flick it off themselves all over the room.

I see simethicone as the "miracle drug" , however I never take it for granted and use it just as i would any other med.:I think before i give it
but usually it helps my gasy buns immediately/

Natural pineapple juice is not proven to help with molts or stasis but time after time it seems to help my rabbits so I always reach for a fresh pineapple.
 

kirst3buns

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Thanks for all the input. I will try and pick up some nutri cal soon. I haven't seen bene bac in stores but I know you can order it on line. Maybe I'll check a larger pet store first.

My rabbit has had some "off" days recently where he ate, but not like his usual enthusiastic self. I usually give a bit of pumpkin for a couple of days when he acts like this and things seem to return to normal. This morning he wasn't as enthusiastic about food again but ate most of what was put in front of him leaving just a few pieces of parsley (he did pick out all the cilantro-his favorite). I think I will try to pick up nutri cal at lunch today and give him a bit this evening.

He's a 3 lbs mini rex - is there a specific "dosing" for nutri cal? Do I give him an amount the size of a pencil eraser, dime? Does it ever cause problems with bunnies, like gas? If I understand correctly, I can just smear it on his paws and let him lick it off? (I hope so, last time I tried to give him gas medicine he drew blood. He hates medicine.)


 

pamnock

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Pipp wrote:
pamnock wrote:
I do advise limited use of Simethicone. If a rabbit is going into alkalosis (high gut pH), administering a base can do more harm than good. (Such as cases of dysbiosis). Overuse of bicarbonates can actually result metabolic alkalosis. Simethicone can work wonders in cases of acidosis (as can a tiny amount of baking soda).
Uh... can I get a translation, preferably in very slow, clear English? :biggrin2:

sas :bunnydance:
The use of Simethicone is advised when the gut pH is low (which means high hydrogen/acidic). The Simethicone disassociates the acid into harmless and easily expelled carbon dioxide & water.

However, if the gut pH is high (alkaline), adding additional alkalines to the system can be dangerous and in some cases, fatal. You'd have high pH in cases of fluid loss, dehydration and diarrhea.

The indiscriminate use of bicarbs can result in serious health problems and acid rebound, so Simethicone should be administered only when needed.



Pam
 

Pet_Bunny

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kirst3buns wrote:
He's a 3 lbs mini rex - is there a specific "dosing" for nutri cal? Do I give him an amount the size of a pencil eraser, dime?
Start off with a pea size drop. You can go to 1/2 an inch later. I think other people used more. I just squeeze mine onto a layer of rolled oats and my two gobble it up. If he rejects it, then you got a fight on your hands. ;) Smearing it on his paws might be trouble, especially when he flicks it all over the walls. :D

Tip: Feed it to him when he is hungry, before hehas anything else.
 

Hazel-Mom

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pamnock wrote:
Pipp wrote:
pamnock wrote:
I do advise limited use of Simethicone. If a rabbit is going into alkalosis (high gut pH), administering a base can do more harm than good. (Such as cases of dysbiosis). Overuse of bicarbonates can actually result metabolic alkalosis. Simethicone can work wonders in cases of acidosis (as can a tiny amount of baking soda).
Uh... can I get a translation, preferably in very slow, clear English? :biggrin2:

sas :bunnydance:
The use of Simethicone is advised when the gut pH is low (which means high hydrogen/acidic). The Simethicone disassociates the acid into harmless and easily expelled carbon dioxide & water.

However, if the gut pH is high (alkaline), adding additional alkalines to the system can be dangerous and in some cases, fatal. You'd have high pH in cases of fluid loss, dehydration and diarrhea.

The indiscriminate use of bicarbs can result in serious health problems and acid rebound, so Simethicone should be administered only when needed.



Pam
Pam, I think you are confusing Simethicone with antacids. True, there are certain products that contain both antacids and Simethicone, but I've always read that you should not use those. It is advized to use the "pure" simethicone alone, without the antacids.

Simethicone itself does nothing to change Ph (degree of acidity) in the gut. It is solely an anti-foaming agent.

"Simethicone is an oral anti-foaming agent used to reduce bloating, discomfort and pain caused by excess gas in the stomach or intestinal tract. It is a mixture of polydimethylsiloxane and silica gel."

"DRUG CLASS AND MECHANISM: Simethicone is an anti-gas (anti-flatulence) medication. It acts in the stomach and intestines to change the surface tension of gas bubbles, enabling smaller bubbles to join together into bigger bubbles. In this way it is believed that gas can be eliminated more easily by belching or passing flatus. Simethicone was approved by the FDA in 1952." (http://www.medicinenet.com/simethicone/article.htm)

If you get the liquid infant simethicone, without the antacids or bicarbs, you won't have the problems you mention.
 

kirst3buns

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Start off with a pea size drop. You can go to 1/2 an inch later. I think other people used more. I just squeeze mine onto a layer of rolled oats and my two gobble it up. If he rejects it, then you got a fight on your hands. ;) Smearing it on his paws might be trouble, especially when he flicks it all over the walls. :D

Tip: Feed it to him when he is hungry, before hehas anything else.
Thanks! I did the pea size before reading this but smeared it on his paw. I actually smeared it pretty good and he didn't fling it off but he didn't look too thrilled with me either:p He did lick it off. He ate normally this evening too so I'm not sure its even necessary but I guess it can't hurt (and maybe he ate normally because of it). Who knows. I plan to keep my eyes open for benebac too now just to keep on hand.




 

Pet_Bunny

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kirst3buns wrote:
He ate normally this evening too so I'm not sure its even necessary but I guess it can't hurt (and maybe he ate normally because of it).
Continue giving it to him for a few days, so he can get use to Nutri-Cal, and the next time you need it, he will be familiar with it. It will keep his weight up too. Make sure he is well hydrated.
 

sweeethearts_2002

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Nutri Cal (for dogs/cats) is an especially good way to get calories into a rabbit that isn't eating. It's very high in fat, so needs to be used sparingly. I'd skip the pumpkin and go straight for the Nutri Cal, which contains vitamin E.

I do advise limited use of Simethicone. If a rabbit is going into alkalosis (high gut pH), administering a base can do more harm than good. (Such as cases of dysbiosis). Overuse of bicarbonates can actually result metabolic alkalosis. Simethicone can work wonders in cases of acidosis (as can a tiny amount of baking soda).



Pam
I have a kit that is 9days old. It's very hot where we live right now so during the hottest parts of the day I bring thr kits on, in a box on a heating pad on low so keeping their space around 100°F. I've been doing this for 3 days and it's been fine, during time I supliment them with milk replacer so they don't dehydrate. This evening my largest kit ( at 4oz nearly ) seemed lethargic snd dehydrated. I immediately admixture electrolytes and milk and got it to rehydrate, meanwhile it started pooping blood even small clots. It has more energy now, but still a lot of blood has been lost. I have nutri cal.... what to do to replace red blood cells?
 

JBun

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A kit pooping blood is not normal and would be considered an emergency. Please take the kit to a knowledgeable rabbit vet. Nutri cal or bene bac, are not going to fix something causing intestinal bleeding. If you're keeping their nesting area at 100 f and they aren't able to scoot to a cool place if needed, heat stress, possibly heat stroke, could be the cause of the lethargy and dehydration, and possibly the internal bleeding. A 9 day old kit does not need a heating pad set at 100 f, if it has a proper nest with moms fur, and the indoor temps are at least 70 f. And especially if it has other kits to snuggle up with. Please do not continue to use a heating pad that could be overheating your kits, unless you have verified a kit is chilled. And even then it needs to be very closely monitored that it doesn't overheat, if using a heating source to slowly warm it.


For any further discussion or quesions, please start your own thread. This thread is over 10 years old.

 

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