Notorious diarrhea?

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Krank

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I've got a doe that i keep for breeding. She has kits at the moment, they explore the cage and started eating her food already. But the mom rabbit from time to time makes soft poo. Not liquid but soft and without shape. More like a clay i'd say? Not cecotrophes. She acts normally, has appetite. I noticed that it happens even once a month or every two months. Only once she had a serious diarrhea where poo was almost liquid and she was lethargit but it was from cauliflower leaves and she doesn't get any cabbage like vegetables now. She eats daily pellets and wheat, almost everyday she gets kitchen scraps (carrot, parsley, celery peels and sometimes apple), dried dill sometimes and carrot. + she always has hay, water and a cob of corn she likes to crunch on sometimes. Should i be concerned? If so, what should i change in diet or do?
 
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JBun

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Yes, I would suggest changing her diet. It sounds like she is getting too many carbohydrates in her diet and this is causing something called cecal dysbiosis, from excess sugars altering the microbial balance in the cecum, and thus causing the cecotropes not to form properly but to come out partially formed or unformed and pasty instead.


I'm not sure what you are feeding the wheat for, but if it's the grain kernel, I would stop feeding that as well as the corn and any other grains. I would severely limit carrot, apple, and any other high starch/sugary treats. I would stick with pellets(increased amount right now because she is nursing), unlimited free fed grass hay, and non starchy veggies and greens that she is already accustomed to eating.

Hopefully cutting out the grains and high starch foods will be enough to correct the mushy poop, but if not you may need to change the pellet amount, though preferably after the babies are grown and weaned as the pellets are providing the extra nutrients she needs right now for nursing.
 

Krank

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Yes, I would suggest changing her diet. It sounds like she is getting too many carbohydrates in her diet and this is causing something called cecal dysbiosis, from excess sugars altering the microbial balance in the cecum, and thus causing the cecotropes not to form properly but to come out partially formed or unformed and pasty instead.


I'm not sure what you are feeding the wheat for, but if it's the grain kernel, I would stop feeding that as well as the corn and any other grains. I would severely limit carrot, apple, and any other high starch/sugary treats. I would stick with pellets(increased amount right now because she is nursing), unlimited free fed grass hay, and non starchy veggies and greens that she is already accustomed to eating.

Hopefully cutting out the grains and high starch foods will be enough to correct the mushy poop, but if not you may need to change the pellet amount, though preferably after the babies are grown and weaned as the pellets are providing the extra nutrients she needs right now for nursing.
Is cecal dysbiosis dangerous? Pellets contain wheat too, they are for farm rabbit. I left her with only hay, water and corn for night. Maybe i'm feeding her too often? I feed her in the morning and evening, and sometimes i give her some starchy grain during the day cuz when she sees me comign with bucket of wheat to chickens she starts standing on rear legs, looking at me, and acts like a begging dog and i can't resist giving it to her :/ So should i feed her only once a day?
I mean she was given for example a carrot and some pellets/wheat in the morning and vegetable peels or pellets/wheat in the evening. When she sees grain or pellets, she really acts like crazy and i don't know if she can't get full without starchy food or she just likes it.
 
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Krank

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I think i found some cecotropes in her cage. They had a strong smell when i pierced them with a straw. Maybe she's overfeed and those were cecotropes that were smashed under her/babies feet?
 

ArtistChibi

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Here's a post from 2013 bringing up info as to why you shouldn't feed rabbits corn.
Plus plenty of sources saying not to feed corn, of any kind, to rabbits. Even @JBun said to stop feeding corn to your bunny. I would recommend paying heed to the information given.
 

Krank

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@ArtistChibi @JBun I cut down the starches. She is given dandelion, grass etc in the morning and pellets in the evening. Sometimes some grains or carrot but rarely. Today i found this unhealthy poop again and a few days ago too. She has unlimited hay and water. Whats the reason then? Maybe she has just sensitive stomach, like some people have?
PS. i've been introducing greens slowly
 

Preitler

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There is another issue with whole grains, and corn: Teeth. Chewing that hard, big kernels can cause the tooth roots to overgrow and cause problems with the tear duct and eyes, or even break teeth. If they go to freezer camp after just 2-3 years of breeding the root thing might not be that much of an issue, but still, it can be a problem.

I did feed corn on the cob when I began, there was so much leftover on the harvested field next to my apartment it was for free. But I cooked it for some time to get it soft (also for the chicken), then it doesn't last long though before spoiling, 1 or 2 days maybe. It's not the best feed, wrong protein composition, but as additional calories for growout meat rabbits imho it can be ok. No long term health worries there.

But it can be too much easily, causing bad bacteria to grow in their stomach, and causing excess cecotropes and some different digestion issues, which simply isn't good in any way, working with sickly animals doesn't make much sense. Getting them fat instead of growth isn't useful either. Rabbits evolved with a pretty lean diet, feeding wheat and corn is like stuffing children with choclate - they sure like it, but not good in the long run.

Now I feed fresh forage (grass, weeds, whatever) whenever available, hay (gets mostly ignored when forage is plentiful), some vegetables when more calories are needed and in winter (Topinambur, carrots, cabbage...), a little apple (1-2 apples shared by 7 rabbits every day), and pellets at treat level. Nursing does get additional pellets, and rolled oats (soaked and sprinkled with sunflower seed oil) to keep them in good condition. Oats are way better for digestion than other grains.
 

Krank

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There is another issue with whole grains, and corn: Teeth. Chewing that hard, big kernels can cause the tooth roots to overgrow and cause problems with the tear duct and eyes, or even break teeth. If they go to freezer camp after just 2-3 years of breeding the root thing might not be that much of an issue, but still, it can be a problem.

I did feed corn on the cob when I began, there was so much leftover on the harvested field next to my apartment it was for free. But I cooked it for some time to get it soft (also for the chicken), then it doesn't last long though before spoiling, 1 or 2 days maybe. It's not the best feed, wrong protein composition, but as additional calories for growout meat rabbits imho it can be ok. No long term health worries there.

But it can be too much easily, causing bad bacteria to grow in their stomach, and causing excess cecotropes and some different digestion issues, which simply isn't good in any way, working with sickly animals doesn't make much sense. Getting them fat instead of growth isn't useful either. Rabbits evolved with a pretty lean diet, feeding wheat and corn is like stuffing children with choclate - they sure like it, but not good in the long run.

Now I feed fresh forage (grass, weeds, whatever) whenever available, hay (gets mostly ignored when forage is plentiful), some vegetables when more calories are needed and in winter (Topinambur, carrots, cabbage...), a little apple (1-2 apples shared by 7 rabbits every day), and pellets at treat level. Nursing does get additional pellets, and rolled oats (soaked and sprinkled with sunflower seed oil) to keep them in good condition. Oats are way better for digestion than other grains.
So what's the cause of her poops if she get's almost no starch except pellets?
 

Preitler

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Hm, I might consider possible parasites, like coccidia. Or yeasts. Once she weaned the kits, if it doesn't get away on this diet a hay only diet for a week or so could be worth a try, and then reintroducing one thing after the next. It really could be that she's sensitive to something.
Other rabbits are ok with those pellets?

Anyway, is it just a few odd poops besides normal ones, or does all poop change into that? If it is just a few odd poops pop up while nursing I wouldn't worry too much or make drastic changes, I've seen that too when their whole metabolism is in overdrive.
 

Krank

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Hm, I might consider possible parasites, like coccidia. Or yeasts. Once she weaned the kits, if it doesn't get away on this diet a hay only diet for a week or so could be worth a try, and then reintroducing one thing after the next. It really could be that she's sensitive to something.
Other rabbits are ok with those pellets?

Anyway, is it just a few odd poops besides normal ones, or does all poop change into that? If it is just a few odd poops pop up while nursing I wouldn't worry too much or make drastic changes, I've seen that too when their whole metabolism is in overdrive.
Babies poop normally and eat whatever she eats. She poops a lot normal poo and sometimes there is just some of this weird, pudding like poop. I can't see a change in her behaviour. She has apetite, steals greens from babies, etc.
 

zuppa

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Agree with @JBun about diet changes needed, but also there's a question, why you raise your rabbits (I don't want to know) and how often you breed her, how much time she has to recover between her litters. If you are a breeder, it would be best to ask in Breeders forum because diet for pet rabbits and for commercially raised meat rabbits for example may be very different.
 

Krank

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Agree with @JBun about diet changes needed, but also there's a question, why you raise your rabbits (I don't want to know) and how often you breed her, how much time she has to recover between her litters. If you are a breeder, it would be best to ask in Breeders forum because diet for pet rabbits and for commercially raised meat rabbits for example may be very different.
Well, i don't eat them, i raise them to sell the babies (I would love if someone bought them as pets and not to eat). This is the momma's first litter and i am planning to breed her only once a year. I find pet rabbits forums better. When she was ill back then and i asked on forum for farmers etc, they mostly made jokes like how delicious rabbit stew is and advised me to cull her.
 

Krank

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And i changed her diet, she gets more pellets instead of grains and starchy veggies. She is not going to be the dinner so there is no need to make her fattier. Actually i'm planning to let her live as long as God lets her.
 

Krank

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Seems like those weird poops are a resulf of greens like grass, dandelion, chickweed etc. I haven't give her them for a couple of days and there was no such poo as i described. Today i gave them greens and she made this weird poop. Baby's poo seems normal though
 

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