Need bonding help after flying fur

[crystal]

I think it has been about two weeks now that Lopsy and Lulu have been living near each other. their carriers have been next to each other, and facing each other, and I have been giving them separate exercise time in the lounge room. in this time the one on the loose can approach the other one in the cage. mostly they have ignored each other though. today I decided it was finally time to put them together where one of them isn't contained. dad was home to help and mum was interested too.

I wanted to put them in the bath but dad didn't want them to scratch the bath. so we decided to put them in the outdoor run that neither of them has really used yet (lopsy went in it once). I think the mistake we made was having their carriers in the bonding space. at first they were ignoring each other, and just looking around. Lulu went into Lopsy's carrier, which Lopsy didn't care about at all. but then Lopsy went into Lulu's carrier and then Lulu went in there as well... and then they fought. we thought that it would be good to have somewhere for them to retreat to, but now I realise that it was a bad idea. they fought for a bit... and there was fur flying around. dad managed to separate them though, but it did take longer than it should have because we couldn't get to them very well.

so I guess what I want to know is what I should do now... should I wait another few days before I try again, or should I put them together tomorrow? I'm trying not to be too disheartened by this. I think it was our fault and not theirs. I guess Lulu must be territorial of her carrier, so it didn't work out too well... I feel like I let them down but I'm not going to give up because this was only the first time they were together. and they have ignored each other a lot which I have read is a good initial sign.

should I put them in the same run outside again, or do they associate that with fighting now?

I know this post is very long, but I feel like I need to give enough information for people to be able to help.

 

[Flashy]

I would wait a few days. Often rabbit wounds take a few days to show up because they are often only findable when they scab, so I would wait and see if there are anymore injuries.

When you put them back together try not to have anywhere where one can block the other in, try to have only neutral smelling toys, and also have a place where they can sit and eat hay together.

You might want to try taking them on a car journey together (in the same carrier) because that can calm them down. You might always want to put a drop of vanilla essence just above thier noses to override the scent of the other bunny too.

Bonding is tricky. Every bond I have done has had to be done differently and in some cases it is about a bit of tria and error and experimentation, so hang in there and don't give up.

 

[hartleybun]

Flashy wrote:

. You might always want to put a drop of vanilla essence just above thier noses to override the scent of the other bunny too.

Bonding is tricky. Every bond I have done has had to be done differently and in some cases it is about a bit of tria and error and experimentation, so hang in there and don't give up.

bonding definitely takes patience. my 'neutral territory' has the scent of the dogs all over it which tends to override any bunny scent

you're doing really well, as flashy says 'dont give up'! try to remain calm even if the fur is flying. a waterpistol may help should things turn aggressive...

 

[crystal]

thanks for the info about the scabs, I hadn't thought of that. I will definitely wait a few days.

next time I definitely won't have the carriers in there with them! I now know that was a bad judgement call on my part. because it was only in the carrier that they started to fight, I don't like the idea of putting them in one carrier and taking them in the car! at what point do people usually try that? could I try it in a week or so when they seem to getting along okay, or is it usually what people do at the beginning of bonding?

I think I will try the vanilla essence thing. I could be wrong but it doesn't seem like they are too worried by each others smells. they have been near each other for a while. but as I said, I could be wrong about this.

I did have a spray bottle with me, but I forgot to use it haha. I had read it heaps of places to have one but when they were cat fighting I didn't think of it! I was fairly calm, considering, I was just saying "dad do something!" cos he had gloves on, and he has long arms. I couldn't reach them. it happened so quickly, yet it seemed like so long that they were fighting. I'm hoping it was more traumatic for me than it was for them.

 

[Flashy]

I use the car journey when things are not going well, or if an existing pair of mine start to fight. It tends to calm them right down. Often they sort of snuggle together or lie together. In some cases with mine it kick started the grooming.

I tend to have someone drive and I sit in the back with a bunny in a carrier on each side, and when the engine starts I lift the lids off both carriers and move one bun into the other buns carrier, and we go from there.

Carriers can work fine in bonding in the way you describe, so its just unfortunate for you that they didn't work for you. That's not your fault, that's just that the rabbits need them to not be there for this particular bonding.

Given they have had a fight they may not have an issue with each others smells, which was why I suggested it. It can then wear off and they are used to each other again, provided nothing bad has happened in that time.

You might also want to cut down the area you have them in. Some bond better in larger spaces, some in smaller spaces, and it might be smaller spaces works better for you because you then stand a chance at reaching them. Towels can be good to drop on fighting bunnies.

 

[crystal]

so the car trip calms them down... because they are stressed about something other than each other? is that what the theory is behind the car trip idea...? it sort of doesn't logically make sense, if you know what I mean.

I think I must be missing something here... about each others smells and vanilla essence. so them fighting does point to that they might not mind each others smells? I don't understand what the vanilla essence is for then... sorry.

the space I used isn't very big... the problem with my not being able to reach was because the run is made out of fencing wire, so it is too high for me to reach over and get to them (cos I was outside of it because I also can't step over it because it is so high). so maybe I should use different sizes then in future. and should I be inside the space as well?

so many questions! this is another rabbit related thing that I feel like I get the big picture, but I feel like I'm not sure on all that specifics that relate to my situation and how exactly to do it. I really appreciate the advice from knowledgeable people

 

[Flashy]

I think it's the vibration that does it. Putting them on a washing machine, or dryer, can have the same effect.

I think I may have explained badly/got my words muddled, or been misunderstood.

They have now fought and some bunnies don't forget easily, and it may be that once they smell the scent of the other bun it may trigger the memory of the fight and it may start again. Having the vanilla essence on basically blitzs their sense of smell so therefore masking any potential memory for bad experiences. Hopefully by the time the vanilla has worn off the rabbits will have had some positive experiences with each other, and so the smell shouldn't be a trigger (but if smell is a problem then the vanilla can easily be reapplied). Does that make any more sense?

Some people choose to be inside the space, some people choose not to, so again, that might be something worth experimenting with. I personally prefer something low sided so I can get in in an instant. Is there anywhere you could sort something like that out? If not, it might be easier to be inside.

Each bunny situation is like that, it can be tough and a challenge. Have you read the thread in the Bunny 101 forum about this? There are lots of basic strategies that you can use and that people do use, but often they need to be adjusted and finely tuned for each bonding. Like I said, each bonding I've done has been different (and I've done a fair few), so having those strategies to call upon and then adjust is the most improtant part.

Above all though, stay calm and relax.

 

[crystal]

oh maybe I'll try on top of the washing machine then. sounds easier than the car I think.

yes that does make sense now! thank you for re-explaining. so it's almost like tricking them into thinking that this is a different rabbit... sort of.

yeah the height of the run outside wasn't ideal... my dad is very tall though and has long arms so I thought he would be able to respond quickly (even though I couldn't). but I think he was a bit shocked and didn't know what to do in the moment. I think second time around it will all be different and we will know much better what to expect.

I have read a lot of different things about bonding (which I think includes stuff on this forum), but I probably could do to re-read them and refresh my memory! I will see if I can find a few strategies, that might help. thanks.