My sick bun

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JBun said:
Meloxicam is the active ingredient in Meloxidyl. Meloxidyl is just the brand. I've used it long term for my old arthritic rabbit. There is some risk that it can affect the kidneys, so some vets may want to do a blood test to check kidney function. Your bun just had a blood test didn't he?
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do you mean they need to check kidney function BEFORE pain medication is given? Yes, Paul just had his blood checked.. and he is not taking meloxidyl for a long time . I am more concerned about Thumperina who is taking it over much longer period. I can't recall if her kidney function was checked back in November when it was prescribed, I think it was... It's not been given to her non-stop since November, but still given more or less regularly. After being real bad last November, she perked up and was doing rather good until this May (basically all cool weather months), at first I was getting pain med for her then I stopped until she also showed some decline this May

Can medication over long period damage internal organs?
 
Yes. You can just say you would like to order the prescription online and that you will have the company call to confirm the prescription. Some vets will try to make you think you can't do this because of the reason you stated, they make money from selling the meds to you, but they can't deny you if you request to get the med somewhere else.

There are times when it's better to get it from your vet despite the mark up. Such as when it's an immediate need and your rabbit needs the med right then or that day, when it's more convenient to get it from your vet, or when you only need a small amount and it would be more difficult or more expensive to buy a larger bottle online.

One thing you have to make sure though when getting your med online is that they have what you need and you want to make sure on the price. If you're wanting meloxidyl, that's an easy one to get online and will usually save you quite a bit to not be getting it from the vet.
 
Hi
Thumperina said:
thank you. Baytril won't mess anything up? I am reading so much about improper use of antibiotics that I am afraid of antibiotics in general.
Also, what would be a way to make sure that he has bacteria in urinary tract? Urinalysis?
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Hi fellow Bunnie Mom. You and JBUN are so smart about rabbit stuff!
 
Hi Jude,
I am not that smart about rabbits stuff (otherwise my bun wouldn't been so overweight) but I agree that JBun is a real expert, I am so happy she is here, helping so many bunny owners.
Yesterday the weather was a real disaster. 95F that feels like107F, I have never seen such a huge difference between the actual temperature and "feels like" temp. Even at 10pm there was still no air to breath. Thankfully, its not too often that we have this kind of humidity. I know there are people that keep their bunnies strictly outdoors... not sure how they survive... Just hot is different than extremely humid. I myself couldn't breath. However, we ran into a different problem. Today I brought Thumperina indoors and was giving her medication and critical care. I noticed that a tick was crawling on the surface she was on and I was going to get it and kill it but she was faster - she moved fast and seemed to eat it (???). While I was feeding her, another, small tick nymph, appeared on her fur surface. Darn, I don't want any risks of infesting the house with ticks. My child spends a lot of time in the room where rabbits are when they are indoors, and I myself sleep in that room. Every summer I am risking my health while crawling under bushes trying to get my rabbits out of there, and now my house and my family is at risk. So very frustrated! I will get Revolution on Monday for sure. How often does it need to be applied? I have read every 7 days and this sounds awful expensive!
 
Hi Thumperina, you would only need to reapply the revolution every 4 weeks, but the issue is that it is not 100% effective against ticks, and even then it is only effective against some species. Even if you treat her, ticks can still jump on and off her and potentially be carried into the house, even without being embedded. The best control would be to try and clear the underbrush and sweep up dead leaves etc that make a nice environment for ticks to live in. You’ll also have to check her over every time you bring her in, if your garden is so high risk. Revolution can be good if it is a one-time infection with ticks, but with repeated exposure it is impossible to get rid of them all.
 
thank you Popsicles, there are no leaves under the bushes, just some dirt without anything, and grass that surrounds the bushes.
Does anyone know what should be meloxidyl dosage per kg of weight for a rabbit? Just wanted to make sure that the right one is prescribed.
Last night was a cool night, I let my buns out at 6am as usual but Paul hasn't left the garage at all. It was cool in there, he was lying down looking sad. He finally ate a large piece of kale, I saw him making a puddle of urine - it didn't look bad, wasn't a large amount though. He is clearly in discomfort, what would be the most important diagnostics that I should proceed with? XRay? Urinalysis? Fecal flotation ?
Finance is tough given it's a summer break... I just wasted another $80 taking him to a doc that was no help. I still haven't given him any Baytril. Should I start it?
Thumperina is another story... She leaves the garage immediately, she is running around each morning, she is eating grass, for some reasons she doesn't eat her morning veggies anymore even though it's her favorite stuff (not sure why) but she eats her evening-night veggies. And she has lost a lot of weight since November. She was on the heavy side, now she is slim, and I can feel her backbone very well. She has frequent breathing even when she is indoors and shouldn't be hot. She certainly requires some serious diagnostics... she is taking meloxidyl.
 
If he is in pain when urinating and from what you have described the most important thing I would personally do would be urinalysis, as that’s relatively cheap and easy to do and should be done in-House usually.. an X-ray would certainly be useful buyback I understand that money is tight. Definitely start on the baytril because if it is a simple UTI that will clear it up nicely and you will notice an improvement so quickly with him. Think we all know how uncomfortable UTIs can be!
About thumperina not sure if I missed that post.. What is it that’s up with her? She sounds perky enough! And feeling the backbone is ideal for a bunny, as long as it isn’t sharp edges and bony protrusions. But to lose lots of weight too quickly would be a bit worrying.
 
For how many days should I give Baytril? The vet gave me somewhat a large supply...
When you say "Done in-House", what do you mean? I thought to ask them to get urine sample with the needle.
I will write about Thumperina a bit later. There was a thread back in November regarding her but I understand it may not be easy to find.
 
I would give for a week and see whether symptoms improve at all, sometimes it can take 10 days or more to fully clear an infection. Here in the UK (I can’t speak for US) we would do urinalysis in the practice itself (“in-House”) because sediment analysis etc is pretty simple and most practices have a centrifuge. Only culture (growing the bacteria to see what is present) would need to be sent off. Yes cystocentesis (collecting urine directly from the bladder with a needle) is the best way of sampling urine if you want to grow the bacteria to see what is causing an infection, which we would definitely want to do if the baytril doesn’t work, so we can choose a suitable antibiotic for the type of bacteria. Does he have other UTI symptoms? Struggling to urinate, frequent small puddles, cloudy urine?
No problem I can try and find it :) sorry I’m rubbish because I’m always on my phone so struggle with longer threads and sometimes miss messages so sorry if you’ve answered any of this before.
 
I don't know if he struggles to urinate. puddles that he makes are rather small but I am not sure how frequently he goes. Their urine has always been sort of cloudy-whitish, they don't drink any water. I thought this color-transparency is normal.
 
It can be normal if that’s what it always looks like, so I wouldn’t worry if that isn’t new :) each rabbit is different. It’s always pretty turbid, but if it was more cloudy or white than usual it could indicate an infection. Just trying to think of explanations for him being unwell that might not be urinary tract related.
 
I have some news. I had a chance to weigh Thumperina today when I went to pick up Revolution, and her weight was 7.8 lbs which isn't much less than she used to be. Visually, and by impression that she is rather lightweight when picked up, I though she would be about 6lbs (compared to 8 in the past).
 
I am not sure what to do. It's time to describe my veterinarians as I desperately need an advice.
There are 2 vets I am dealing with. One is "All Creatures animal hospital" owner who is probably about 60 yo male. I will call the second one "The Lady Vet" for simplification.
The Lady Vet is self-proclaimed rabbit specialist, but I don't think she is. Her bio says that lack of info about her own guinea pig's and a rabbit's health encouraged her to become a vet. However, over the course of several years she did several things that really discouraged me to deal with her.
1. When Thumperina had urine scald, the lady vet said it was because the rabbit was "too furry" and there was no problems. I had to take her to another vet (paid again!) , they found an infection.
2. Sold me kitten dose of Revolution, when I researched and came back to exchange it for a more adequate dose, she didn't wish to talk to me and sent the receptionist to tell me that she was a certified vet there and "knows better".
3. Last November she took Thumperina's XRay and said she had spread out cancer, 2 days to live and nothing could be done. Sent us home with pain med only. Again, I had to go get another opinion, I had digital copy of XRay but another vet said he needed his own XRray after which he said "Who knows what it is"
4. A week ago I brought Paul with diarrhea. For some reasons, the only thing the Lady vet suggested was an Xray again (is it the most important diagnostics with diarrhea???), I refused due to lack of funds, then she prescribed Baytril and metacam. Diarrhea is an emergency... nobody ever even called to see if he survived.

The only thing I like about her office - she has affordable and more bunny friendly meds.

Another guy vet in All Creatures. I don't think he is a rabbit specialist either but he at least trying hard to do it right and he is always offering solutions ("nothing can be done" isn't his credo). He isn't lazy to call the Vet medicine department in our state university if he needs info (he did when he wasn't sure how to treat my sick bird). "Rabbit" is listed third in "animals seen" after dogs and cats. He has more possibilities in his office than the Lady Vet - they do blood work, some labs - something that Lady Vet has never offered me. No ultra sound though. They saved Thumperina when she had fly strike. they always call to check on your pet. Their drawback - they are expensive. He isn't trying to keep his clinic affordable like his Brother does in a suburb, he is trying to keep it elite. Also, I have a feeling that he doen't know what meds are optimal for bunnies. However, this office authorized online purchases for me couple of times, which I appreciate.

Now Paul's situation (since this, all info is recent for the last month or a little longer). It was probably beginning of May when he got worse the first time, and I took him to All Creatures guy vet. Due to not having unlimited wallet, we only did the exam, blood work (which was OK) and he prescribed a bunch of stuff for motility, pain control, etc. We decided that we could do an Xray later. Since this, Paul has been doing better or worse, on and off... So I am thinking that his main problem isn't found and not addressed yet. The guy vet didn't find any problems with his teeth from a simple visual exam. however there is a strange thing when I feel flaps of skin by his cheeks. He has a large dewlap and if I feel where his cheeks are, there is some kind of mass (rather large!) by one cheek but nothing at another cheek. The guy vet said he could feel it too, but he was unsure what it was (maybe some asymmetric fat distribution, maybe increased lymph node, he said).
Then, a weekend of Memorial day, Paul got worse and we could barely wait for offices to open on Tuesday. Tuesday morning is when he had diarrhea, but the guy Vet in All creatures called in sick. So I HAD TO take him to the lady Vet. We did no Xray because I am already afraid that her Xray doesn't offer any solutions anyway and has to be retaken by another vets. She said that Paul had overgrown teeth...
I regret about not starting him on Baytril that she gave a week ago. Today he was so passively lying on the ground on his own urine that I got real scared and today we finally started Baytril. However, I am scared... If we go to All Creatures to do an XRAY, they already said they would charge the cost of an Xray AND exam (again). I just paid a bunch of money to online pharmacy for 100ml of Metacam.
I am afraid he might have an abscess in his mouth (hence that strange mass on one side when you feel his cheeks). He is eating on his own, not very well, but still. He hasn't got any treats for a long time. I just gave him a small piece of carrot to see if he eats. He ate it.

Any thoughts, ideas??? please.
 
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From what you have described, the male vet definitely sounds like the better option, and although more expensive you will probably find you spend less in total if you had proper diagnostics and treatment the first time round instead of seeing the cheaper vet over and over and also having to repeat the same diagnostics. Also the only way a vet can be called a specialist is if they have done extra diplomas for example in rabbit medicine. Having a special interest in something does not make you a specialist, and I wouldn’t trust anyone who says so - I have a special interest in small furries, I certainly would not call myself a specialist.
As for Paul, I’m glad You started on the baytril and hopefully that will help if it is a UTI which we did possibly expect. I would also be interested to get some proper diagnostics on this lump on the jaw - imaging by X-ray (proper dental views) or ultrasound, for sure, and if it is a soft lump it could be useful to take a fine needle aspirate (like a biopsy) to collect some cells/fluid to see if it is an abscess/lymph node/salivary gland.. etc etc.
I know money is an issue at the moment, but I don’t think there’s much way of getting around that and also getting proper medical care.
 
thanks Popsicles. I am trying to recall if the guy vet took a sample from this lump during our previous visit. He did biopsy from Paul's 3rd eye lid (that's another problem but it seems to be OK so I am not mentioning it) and mentioned about taking a sample from the lump too, but I will need to call them to specify if he did and what the result was
 
I finally searched for meloxicam dosage. Found 0.3-0.6 mg/kg. However, I see that both my rabbits are prescribed 0.8 - .85 mg/kg. I know it says up to 1.5 mg/kg if needed but still... is 0.8 mg/kg OK dosage ?
 
I can’t see that 0.8mg would be an issue. Because meloxicam is metabolised quite quickly, I would be tempted to split that dose in half and give it twice daily, but please check that with your vet. He might even intend for you to give the 0.8 twice daily?
 
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