More trouble :(

[DottyRabbit]

Hello everyone, hope that you and your bunnies are all good!!

I posted a few months back a fair bit about my baby bunny who got caught by a cat. She had a nasty, nasty wound on her head, which has healed fantastically despite the vets thinking that may have been the end of her! She did however develop an infection in the ear due to a tear in the ear, and the vets thought it may have to be removed once the infection had cleared. Some of the end of the ear has dropped off but there is still a fair bit which remains healthy so does not need to be removed
We were treating the infected ear with antibiotics (septrin) and daily cleaning and covering in manuka honey. This worked well and it seemed the infection cleared, so we stopped the antibiotics. This was about a month ago.

Yesterday I was playing with the buns and noticed some oozing on her face, which appeared to me as an abscess that had come to the surface and burst, so took her to the vets today and that's what it was. The vet gave it a clean and said to put her back on the septrin and manuka honey and come back on thursday or friday, and we'll go from there. She said the options are a CT scan which will be very expensive, and then see what we can do, but that route in general would be ridiculously expensive and it depends on how deep the infection was as to what they can do, and even if they did operate it's not always successful I asked about stronger antibiotics that you can inject that I've heard about, but she said they're risky (she said they're penicillin which can go either way for bunnies?) but it's worth trying as a last resort if nothing else works.

I was just wondering if anybody could enlighten me as to whether there are any other options or any people who have had bunnies with facial abscesses?

She is absolutely 100% in herself, binkying around, eating, drinking, going to the toilet etc, I just really want her to get fully better

Thanks very much x

P.S. I can attach a photo if that helps, it's a bit gruesome.

 

[Imbrium]

I don't have any experiences with abscesses, but I really hope you can find a good treatment plan for her! cat bites and scratches are SO nasty

 

[DottyRabbit]

Thank you very much, so do I I thought we were all clear, but not yet She's such a little fighter though!

 

[JBun]

I've read of people having success with bicillin injections. You could print out the study and show it to your vet.

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/f27/abscess-rabbits-helpful-info-72073/
http://people.umass.edu/~jwmoore/bicillin/bicillin.htm

 

[DottyRabbit]

Great, thank you! That looks very positive. The vet mentioned that penicillin based medication can often have negative effects on rabbits, mainly due to it effecting their digestive system, and can be very risky and cause death itself in some cases? Do you know if this is a big risk or one worth taking if the current treatment isn't working?

Also, the abscess is open and being flushed out and cleaned everyday. Will it need operating on before we tried the bicillin injections? I think that was another issue due to the location of it.

Sorry for my ignorance, I don't know a lot about abscesses in bunnies, but just wanted to know as much as I can so I can pester my vet!

 

[JBun]

I don't have personal experience dealing with an abscess, so I'm just going off things I've read. I'm not sure how necessary surgery is, but with how risky it is to do surgery on a rabbit, I personally, would feel safer trying antibiotic injections, before resulting to surgery. Any antibiotic(or medication) has it's risks, and it will just depend on how your rabbit reacts to it. Penicillin is dangerous to give to rabbits orally, but is often given as an injection, to rabbits. If you do give antibiotics though, you should also give a probiotic with it as well.

This is some info on antibiotic safety for rabbits.

http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medication/Antibiotics/Safe_antibiotics.htm
http://www.medirabbit.com/Unsafe_medication/dangerous_antibiotics.htm

 

[DottyRabbit]

Thank you for your help, I will certainly be talking to the vet about the injections if I don't see any results within a week or so.

Fingers crossed

 

[LakeCondo]

Yes. a probiotic is a must, as it restores the good bacteria that the antibiotic indiscriminately kills off. You can use benebac or something made for humans, as long a it contains probiotic strains that work in the intestines, not just in the stomach.

 

[DottyRabbit]

Thanks Do you know if there is any way I can find out a dosage for the probiotic?

 

[Nancy McClelland]

You're both in our prayers. Only had one experience with an abscess and it turned out to be bone cancer.

 

[minmelethuireb]

I've had two experiences with abscess treatment.

The first one was surprisingly easy. I noticed a bald spot on Lucy's chin that had a big swollen red bump, and it felt like a lump. I took her to her vet and she aspirated it and squeezed out some thick puss. I was VERY worried, because abscesses are often hard to treat. To start out, the vet gave me a cream called AviX and told me to soak the spot with a warm washcloth, then apply the cream. I REALLY didn't think it would work. There didn't seem to be a hole, and it still felt swollen. However, the vet thought it was getting better, and within 2 weeks her chin was COMPLETELY healed. Talk about a pleasant surprise. That was 18 months ago, and it never came back. (*knock on wood*)

In Lucy's case, the vet thinks she must have got a small scratch on her chin and when it healed a bit of dirt or something was trapped inside and it became infected.


My mini rex Dewey has this weird thing where his saliva glands are swollen. Initially, though, the vet (a different vet than Lucy's) thought it was an abscess and Dewey got a few penicillin shots. He tolerated those very well. However, when it didn't work he had surgery done, but they found out it was wasn't an abscess but a noncancerous saliva gland that was swollen for some reason... This was 3 years ago, and he's still going strong at 7 years old. He still has the weird swollen gland though.

Anyway. If it doesn't get better in about a week, I'd think your vet would start inject-able penicillin. It's supposed to be very safe. They should NEVER give rabbits penicillin orally though.

Best of luck to you and your bunny.

 

[majorv]

Thanks Do you know if there is any way I can find out a dosage for the probiotic?

I'm not sure what's available in the U.K. but two brands available in the U.S. are Bene-Bac and Probios. The first is usually available in pet stores and the second is usually found in feed stores. You might be able to get it online, too. The dosage for both is noted in the directions and is based on the weight of the animal. For example, the tube of Bene-Bac I have says 1 gram up to 10lbs of body weight. It has a knurled ring and is marked in 1 gram increments...very easy to administer and our rabbits take it readily.

 

[woahlookitsme]

To be a bit cheaper Penicillin can be bought at a feed store and you can give the injections once taught how to (unless you already know how to give subcutaneous injections) It is really easy to learn and can be a way to cut costs.

Why couldnt the vet lance the abcess and drain as much as possible? Is it in a particular place that could potentially be harmful?

Cat bites and scratches are horrible and most commonly end up as infections/abcesses. If it was any other species I probably would have kept her on the antibiotics for longer but I do know they can be rough on rabbits GI tracts.

 

[Imbrium]

Thanks Do you know if there is any way I can find out a dosage for the probiotic?

there's two different packagings for bene-bac gel - you can see pics of both at the top of the first aid page of my glider store: http://www.hurricanesleucisticfriends.com/first-aid-supplies.html - one is a 4-pack of single dose (ie 1-gram) tubes and the other is a 15 gram syringe (one gram = the dose for animals up to 10 pounds); either will work. there's also a powdered formula, but I've never tried that. my bunnies will eat the gel straight from the syringe. in addition to my store, you can buy the probiotics from other places online, sometimes from feed stores and sometimes from Petco (they have the 4-packs of gel online, but I think they may only have the powder in stores).

the 4-pack of gel says once a week and thinks you should give it every week; the syringe says two doses three days apart. I would go with the two doses three days apart - one the day before the injection and one two days after. as a note, if you ever give oral antibiotics, you need to wait at least 2h between an antibiotic dose and a probiotic dose.

 

[tonyshuman]

If the abscess is very well defined--ie the edges of it are thick and capsule-like, it may be best just to remove it. That way the vet knows it's totally gone, you can keep the wound clean while it heals, etc. If you lance and flush an abscess it is difficult in a rabbit to keep clean because the pus is so thick. You end up having to flush it very well and pack it with sterile dressing, antibiotic beads, and/or medical honey twice a day, and it's very stressful for everyone involved and can be painful. If a clean removal can be done, it's often the best bet. The second best bet is usually strong systemic antibiotics, and lancing actually is the least preferred method unless the abscess is huge (or has burst on its own).

However. I would think the vet can give stronger antibiotics. Is the septrim a topical or oral medication? Your bun definitely needs systemic (oral or injected) antibiotics. When Penicillin is given via injection, as per the instructions already posted, there are almost never any GI side effects, because it doesn't get into the GI tract in large amounts. Oral meds get into the GI tract much more easily because they are administered via the GI tract. Giving antibiotics sub-cutaneously skips the GI tract entirely--they get into the circulation of blood and lymph directly, are metabolized in the liver/kidneys, and excreted via urine. They only reach the GI tract via blood that supplies the GI tract, and the amount is much less than if administered orally. That's why penicillin and some other antibiotics are safe when given via injection but toxic when given orally. Probiotics aren't always needed with injected antibiotics, although I don't think they ever really hurt.

http://www.medirabbit.com/Safe_medication/Antibiotics/Safe_antibiotics.htm

If you have Oxbow Critical Care food, that contains probiotics as well. FibrePlex is a UK brand of probiotic that some people have used with success.
http://www.vetuk.co.uk/rabbit-suppl...ibreplex-for-rabbits-and-small-rodents-p-1180

 

[DottyRabbit]

Thank you so much for all your replies, they've all been very helpful!
I will be getting hold of some probiotics to give her whilst she's on antibiotics, I'm a bit concerned that the vet hadn't mentioned this to me!

Errrm, I don't think the abscess is that well defined, it's just a flat area of open flesh with a lot of pus, there aren't really any edges that I'm aware of, but I could be wrong. I will attach a photo below, but warning, it's pretty graphic and horrible

At the moment she is getting the septrin orally and then we are putting manuka honey on the actual wound. That's really good to hear about the penicillin being pretty safe to inject, I'm going to make sure I persue with talking more to my vet about this if the septrin doesn't work and an operation is not an option. I really hope she lets me put her on it! She's going back in on thursday morning to see how the septrin and manuka honey is working, and also to be sedated so that the wound can be thoroughly cleaned and examined (she's pretty feisty and it was difficult to have a proper poke around). If there is no change by thursday do you think I should mention the bicillin injections then, or should I give it a bit longer?

 

[Imbrium]

Thank you so much for all your replies, they've all been very helpful!
I will be getting hold of some probiotics to give her whilst she's on antibiotics, I'm a bit concerned that the vet hadn't mentioned this to me!

I don't know why, but vets never seem to mention probiotics >< mine didn't, yet the last time I took a glider in (for stress-related diarrhea after being rehomed, which I knew he was going to prescribe antibiotics for), I mentioned that I'd already started all the gliders on probiotics the night before and he was really glad to hear that and told me to keep giving them. they seem to agree with the sentiment, yet not actually suggest it themselves for some reason.

 

[slavetoabunny]

I have had experience with dental abscesses and a long term antibiotic regimen (mine was 3 months) including bicillin injections did the trick in curing Sparky.

 

[roxyllsk]

What does everyone think about plain non-fat yogurt for a bunny ? I see the yogurt treats in the stores for rabbits, and I give yogurt to my dogs when they get an upset tummy to help settle things.

Anyway, any thoughts on yogurt ? The thing is that yogurt contains live probiotic stuff, and most of the powdered stuff you get is not live.

 

[tonyshuman]

Yogurt's not a good choice for buns because they cannot digest the lactose in it. The yogurt treats are just little sugar balls, pretty much.

The pic of the abscess isn't as bad as I had expected. I would definitely ask about doing bicillin then. Often vets in the UK are more hesitant to do bicillin than vets here, but it should be fine. Having the info posted by others before would really help. They did a really good study of that type of treatment.