Mini lop with dark crusty lumps at each side of mouth :(

[Gem123]

Hi everyone, I’m new here and looking for some advice. My mini lop has dark crusty lumps at each side of his mouth. One side bigger than the other. I thought it was dried food stuck to him until I rubbed his fur and he didn’t like it. It seems painful for him.
They are greeny browny black, the colour of rabbit nuggets actually. He is eating and drinking fine and going to the toilet ok too.
Has anyone had any experience of this with their bunnies?
He is 7 now and has never had anything like this before. I’ve searched the internet and can’t find anything similar. Any help or advice is greatly appreciated. Please see attached photo of the side of his mouth. This is the worst side. Thanks.

 

[Preitler]

I would suspect rabbit syphilis. Treatable with antibiotics, but better see a vet.

Link about that:
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Skin_diseases/Bacterial/Syphilis.htm

 

[Gem123]

Thanks for your reply. But his companion passed away a while ago and he hasn’t been near any other bunnies.

 

[John Wick]

Rabbit syphilis can be asymptomatic for literally years, so I would not rule it out. It does look characteristic of syphilis to me. There are atypical cases of rabbit syphilis where the crusting/scabs only occur around the mouth and/or eyes, as opposed to being around the genital region (graphic images): MediRabbit

 

[Gem123]

Thanks for your reply.
He only has them on his mouth. His companion was a male bunny. And I’ve never bred from either of them or anything like that. Only had those two since they were babies and they haven’t been around other bunnies.
Not sure if it’s relevant, but he had a suspected water infection about 3 weeks ago (not using his toilet area and just sitting in his wee and hardly moving at all). Vet prescribed metacam for pain relief and antibiotics. He got better quickly and was his usual self thankfully within a week. Could these scabs be linked to any of the medication? As we gave him them in liquid form for a week in a syringe in his mouth.
appreciate any advice. Another vet trip on the cards by the looks of it. Just wanted all your guys thoughts. Plus not sure how soon I’ll be able to get an appointment with a rabbit savvy vet.

 

[John Wick]

Medication would not cause scabbing, and if there was a bad reaction, I would expect the inside of the mouth would have also seen such a reaction and your rabbit just would not have reacted well to that medication at all. By water infection, do you mean urine infection (UTI?). If there is something odd about the water your rabbit physically was drinking, it may be something fungal, and that would also need veterinary assessment and guidance on proper treatment.

Re: syphilis, which cannot be diagnose without veterinary assessment, it is possible that your current rabbit simply got it from his mother, who may/may not have been asymptomatic. My Wick had syphilis which did not become symptomatic until he was 3yo, and at that point had no contact with any other rabbit outside his mother/litter. There were no indications (mentioned to me) that syphilis was a concern.

 

[Gem123]

Thank you.
Yes a UTI. But he recovered fine from that and was his normal happy self. So probably not the medication.
oh I didn’t realise it could be dormant for years before showing symptoms. Is it possible just to have scabs and no other symptoms?
hopefully I’ll be able to get an appointment soonish.

 

[JBun]

Though rabbit syphilis is certainly a possibility, it looks more like fungal dermatitis to me. With syphilis there will usually be more of a white crustiness around the affected area. Crusting of the skin is the primary symptom of syphilis.

If it is fungal, maybe the course of antibiotics contributed to an overgrowth, like when people get a yeast infection after being on antibiotics. Also could have to do with a weakened immune system. What antibiotic was your rabbit on for the UTI?

Regardless, either one will need meds from your vet as soon as you can get an appointment. I would also want to start some probiotics, like fibreplex or bio lapis, which I would start now even before the appointment(though consult with your vet first if you aren't sure).

Medirabbit: fungal dermatitis

Medirabbit: rabbit syphilis

 

[John Wick]

Thank you.
Yes a UTI. But he recovered fine from that and was his normal happy self. So probably not the medication.
oh I didn’t realise it could be dormant for years before showing symptoms. Is it possible just to have scabs and no other symptoms?
hopefully I’ll be able to get an appointment soonish.

Scabs are generally the only symptoms of syphilis, aside from abnormalities around the genital region. Yes, it can express as only scabs around the mouth (as was my rabbit's presentation).

As mentioned by @JBun , either fungal or syphilis are possibilities based on what you've described/showed and both will require veterinary assessment/guidance. Hopefully you'll find an appointment slot soon!

 

[Gem123]

Thanks for your help guys.
The antibiotics he was on was baytril. I’m just worried as he’s getting older now.
where can I buy the probiotics? Is this something he could have all the time to help his immune system?
so much conflicting info on the net sometimes it’s hard to know what’s best.
thanks.

 

[JBun]

If your vet is a knowledgeable rabbit vet, they will often carry the probiotic. Your local pet shop may have it, or you can buy it online, which these are usually the cheaper options. They have instructions on the container for what the typical administration will be. Usually it's during the course of antibiotics, though some rabbits with digestive issues, they seem to do better with having it daily. Just depends on the rabbit, what treatment is occurring, and what your knowledgeable rabbit vet advises.

Some other probiotic options in the UK are, Vetark pro c professional, which is probably more cost effective as you get more for your money. But it does contain added vitamins, so shouldn't be given long term if vitamin enriched pellets are also fed regularly. Same with Bio lapis. Fibreplex is just the probiotic, prebiotic, and carrier oil and thickener, so more suitable for long term administration in my opinion. And there's Protexin pro fibre, that is a probiotic pellet, and that is meant for daily administration according to the manufacturer. Though it does contain added grains, so some rabbits may be sensitive to the added carbs to the diet.

If this is something you do want to give daily ongoing, if you find it is seeming to be beneficial to your rabbit and your rabbit isn't sensitive to the added grains causing mushy cecals, then I would say the pro fibre pellets would be the best thing and easiest to administer(if your rabbit likes eating them). Though do consult with your vet, if not before you start them, then when you get your rabbit in for the appointment.

I've only given probiotics during antibiotic treatment(making sure to give a few hours after antibiotics were given so the antibiotic doesn't affect the effectiveness of the probiotic), though I have read of it helping some rabbits with their ongoing digestive issues when they were given daily. So it just depends what you and your vet determine works best for your rabbit.

One thing I will mention, is if your vet isn't particularly knowledgeable about rabbits, and especially if you have any concerns your rabbit is getting the proper diagnosis and treatment, then finding a more knowledgeable rabbit vet is usually recommended.

https://rabbitwelfare.co.uk/rabbit-...abbit-friendly-vets/rabbit-friendly-vet-list/

 

[Gem123]

Hi everyone.
I managed to get a cancellation appointment on Friday night with a vet. Not sure how I feel about the outcome. He didn’t recommend anti Biotics or anti fungal or anything.
He thinks it’s an allergy?? And given me metacam and told me to clean it twice a day. and to go back if it hasn’t gone within 7-10 days.
I’m not sure how lumpy scabs can be an allergy. They are nowhere else on his body or face. Little bit confusing.
On a positive note he’s eating drinking pooping normally. just horrid scabs on his little mouth.

 

[JBun]

That is definitely not an allergy. If it were, you would see either swelling around the mouth, and/or irritation and scratching at the sores as hives would be very itchy. But even if on the off chance it were an allergy, the extent of the sores call for antibiotics to be prescribed as well, and possibly an antihistamine to reduce the allergic reaction. Not just an anti inflammatory.

I think you may need to find a more knowledgeable rabbit vet to get a second opinion. If you want to give your general area, someone may be able to suggest a rabbit vet near you if you want to go to a different clinic. Or try the list I posted a link to above. If you don't try a different vet right away, if after a week your rabbit hasn't improved at all or has worsened, I would definitely go to a different more knowledgeable rabbit vet then.

 

[Gem123]

Thanks for the replies. That’s exactly what I thought, if it were an allergy then surely he would need an antihistamine.
We did as advised and washed the area and gave him painkillers. The lumps/scabs dropped off after a few days and he just had pink sore looking skin at each side of his mouth. so thought the worst was over.
checked him over last night and one side has a lumpy scab again
back to square one. The vet we took him to was a rabbit savvy vet so I’m at a loss what’s for the best.

 

[Catlyn]

Thanks for the replies. That’s exactly what I thought, if it were an allergy then surely he would need an antihistamine.
We did as advised and washed the area and gave him painkillers. The lumps/scabs dropped off after a few days and he just had pink sore looking skin at each side of his mouth. so thought the worst was over.
checked him over last night and one side has a lumpy scab again ☹
back to square one. The vet we took him to was a rabbit savvy vet so I’m at a loss what’s for the best.

As said by others, getting a second opinion from another savvy vet would be better. The one you saw doesn't sound too savvy to me.
Did you check the listing above?

 

[JBun]

Maybe the metacam helped reduce some inflammation and so helped with the scabs initially. If you had stopped the metacam and the scab came back after that, maybe it is proving helpful and might be good to continue. If you had still been giving the metacam when the scab came back, I can't think why this occurred.

If you think it could be an allergy and not a fungal or syphilis infection, you could ask your vet to try adding an antihistamine. Piriton syrup is sometimes prescribed to rabbits there in the UK. And also to continue with the metacam if that's what was helping.