Massive Rabbit Seizure in Indiana

[woahlookitsme]

It must have been pretty boring for them, sit there and watch life pass them by, probably not getting any attention unless they were a "prized" animal. How many of them simply received the basics, not even a head rub in passing?

I just find it sad.

This you do not know. So once again you don't know what he did or didn't do so you can not comment on it.

And babymiyo in my above post the owner said that they were dirty conditions. Anyone in our hobby can tell that the cages and area needed to be cleaned.
You may be right with health is not the pinnacle of animal welfare but it sure is a darn good indication. Obviously blankets toys and hay weren't needed in order for these rabbits to be healthy. The health of the rabbit is what we depend on when raising rabbits. Who's to know if his rabbits werent happy. Unless you can read minds then you don't know. The animals were in good weight which meant they were eating. They had no feet issues (which is a bad problem in the mini Rex breed) so maybe they didn't need mats. You might want to look up and read about animal welfare from people other than rescues. This is a guide from AVMA and from what I can see "seeing things from the point of view of the individual rabbit" is no where in this guide. . . Soooo it looks like he was ensuring animal welfare from having healthy animals in good condition. . .
https://www.avma.org/kb/resources/r...&utm_term=animalwelfare&utm_campaign=redirect

 

[Anaira]

Wow, I think you're getting a just a tad defensive. Ok, so I wasn't picking on just one picture of where the cages looked too small, most if not all looked small. I'm sure they are adjusted to living in those sizes, prisoners also adjust to living inside cells. The rust; again, IMHO you anti-rust and paint cages as they get rusty. If you can't maintain your cages, you have too many, and you need to downsize. There was one picture where I thought the outside had cobwebs all over it, but looking closer it's probably hay and fur. My understanding is if you have outdoor rabbits, you need to treat for mites and worms regularly, and this includes cleaning cages, or it's a little pointless. However, that's not a huge issue. You're focusing on the examples I gave, and justifying them, but missing my point.

Ok, lets leave this chap specifically out of it for a second, and the legal aspect of it. What I'm talking about is the attitude towards it. I'm not sure this is going to get anywhere, but I'm going to try make a stab at it. Your attitude sees them as livestock, I see them as pets first and foremost. Most of the breeders I know have their pets first and foremost, and breeding is secondary. It's a little like as long as they are healthy, and perform well in shows, and have healthy babies, it doesn't matter how they spend their lives, even if its in a cage. Can I ask how much outside cage time your rabbits do get? The way you worded it, and I'm sorry if I got this wrong, but it sounded like they don't get it much. If that's the case, and I'm going to put it bluntly; in this country, I took part in campaigns, and street appeals to change the laws on allowing livestock to be kept that way. And the government is starting to slowly change those laws.

 

[woahlookitsme]

Not that I am getting defensive. I may be. But like I have been stating this is also essentially what I do too. Have rabbits for show. People don't understand what is dealt with and the ins and outs of what we do unless you actually do it too. I do not see my rabbits as just livestock. Other breeders see it that way but I also see my rabbits as pets. Have you seen Rockys cage? It's a huge two story cage for a 2lb rabbit. All of my rabbits have names and get individual time with me when I am able to come home. I know all of my rabbits personalities and their normals. To some extent I believe this is what other breeders know also when they have as many as I do. There is a point where that becomes unmanageable but I personally am not that way and I almost never want to be that way.

Yea prisoners also adjust to living in cells but they are not born that way. Rabbits are born into their enviornment and whose to say its wrong even though its their normal. I believe what you are saying can be termed as anthropomorphism.

I am not handy but i believe Anti rust and paint will not help a cage that is at its last leg. Who knows how long he had those cages but you can't just put a bandaid on a deep cut. We have outside rabbits and do not treat regularly for worms or mites. Our rabbits are on wire flooring to prevent worms. You normally can't get worms if you don't come into contact with the feces that carries the eggs. And in 5 years and more than 50 rabbits I have had one fur mite problem with one rabbit. She was treated with revolution once and never another problem *knocks on wood* cleaning cages can prevent diseases but once again do you know when he or anyone cleans cages? Nope. You can ask that and I will reply. I am currently in college and now with a job. I am able to work with my rabbits when I come home which is almost once a week or once every two weeks. My babies get running time just because they need to get out and run at least once when I come home. My older rabbits or breeding rabbits maybe get out once every 6months. They got out more when they were younger going to shows and such. Now I feel as if I have to be defensive. What does that way really mean? Can you really tell if your rabbit is happier than mine because they get more things?

 

[BunnyWabbit]

The gentlemen in question was reported by his neighbors because of the odor. He admits that his rabbitry wasn't very clean. It is likely that if he had upheld higher standards of cleanliness, so it didn't smell, he could have avoided this whole situation. Woahlookitsme said it took 5-7 hours to clean PART of her rabbitry of 20+ rabbits... This gentlemen had 20 times that. Heck, if it only took 5 minutes to clean up after a each rabbit that's still 33 hours a week to clean ONCE. I have 5 rabbits and if I don't clean at least every other day it starts to get rather smelly. I can't imagine how badly 400 rabbits, in a dirty rabbitry, would smell.

Everything I've read about this situation leads me to believe that due to a circumstance change the amount of rabbits was no longer reasonable for him. He probably should have reduced the amount of rabbits in his care so that it was more manageable.

I also think the way it was handled by authorities is a bit strange. Why issue a warning and allow him time to fix the situation and then later claim that the whole set up wasn't legal to begin with? If it was illegal he should have been told that he couldn't breed/house rabbits within whatever area and told to relocate them.

Do I think they should have been seized? I don't know. I think I would have preferred local authorities working with him to reduce the size of his herd. Perhaps helping him adopt out some of them and/or improve the conditions of his rabbitry. Whether or not I agree with the size of their cages there are a lot of rabbits that are worse off that can't/won't get rescued because these 400 are now filling their slots. I feel like responsible breeders, rescues, and animal rights advocates would benefit rabbits in general a lot more if we all worked together instead of demonizing each other.

 

[Watermelons]

TOPIC CLOSED!

You guys were all warned twice to keep it clean and friendly and its obvious that cant be done.